27 April 2010
Noah’s Ark PaleoBabble Update
Posted by MSH under: Ancient Sites; Bible; Noah's ark .
This is a sad post for me. Read on and you’ll know why.
Fox News reported today about a joint Turkish-Chinese expedition that claims to have found Naoh’s ark on Mount Ararat. Part of their proof is the picture below, which purports to have been taken inside the ark. Allegedly, the wooden beams carbon-date to 4,800 years old. Would that be cool or what?
Now the sad part. I also got an email today from one of Randall Price’s students. The email contains a message from Dr. Price about this expedition. (Dr. Price, as some of you may recall, has been doing a lot of searching for the ark lately.) Here is an excerpt from his message:
I was the archaeologist with the Chinese expedition in the summer of 2008 and was given photos of what they now are reporting to be the inside of the Ark. I and my partners invested $100,000 in this expedition (described below) which they have retained, despite their promise and our requests to return it, since it was not used for the expedition. The information given below is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard (from others who claim to have been eyewitnesses or know the exact details).
To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake. The photos were reputed to have been taken off site near the Black Sea, but the film footage the Chinese now have was shot on location on Mt. Ararat. In the late summer of 2008 ten Kurdish workers hired by Parasut, the guide used by the Chinese, are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area (where the photos were originally taken) at the Mt. Ararat site. In the winter of 2008 a Chinese climber taken by Parasut’s men to the site saw the wood, but couldn’t get inside because of the severe weather conditions. During the summer of 2009 more wood was planted inside a cave at the site. The Chinese team went in the late summer of 2009 (I was there at the time and knew about the hoax) and was shown the cave with the wood and made their film. As I said, I have the photos of the inside of the so-called Ark (that show cobwebs in the corners of rafters – something just not possible in these conditions) and our Kurdish partner in Dogubabyazit (the village at the foot of Mt. Ararat) has all of the facts about the location, the men who planted the wood, and even the truck that transported it.
In short, Randall was duped. I feel bad about it because I know him. He’s a good guy with real degrees (so please don’t equate him with charlatans like Ron Wyatt). Yeah, he should have known better. But at least he’s being honest here.
130 Comments so far...
Cris Putnam Says:
27 April 2010 at 9:14 PM.
I am glad you got this up quick Dr Heiser – the story is getting a lot of attention. With biblical minimalists doing all they can to undermine the historicity of the biblical text we really don’t need this sort of hucksterism! I have learned quite a bit from Dr Price and it is unfortunate that he was taken by these unscrupulous con artists. Let’s make sure they are exposed.
Jag Says:
27 April 2010 at 11:25 PM.
I do not know Randall and feel sorry for everyone who lost money, but… how could anyone sane invest $100,000 (yes, $100,000) in something that is more likely than not to be a hoax? And especially someone “with real degrees”? And if he knew about the hoax in 2009 already, why didn’t he warn us all then?
Nanahuatzin Says:
28 April 2010 at 1:30 AM.
At lear Randall Price recongnizes… but as as ” Director of Excavations on the Qumran Plateau ” he really should know better!!!!
DT Says:
28 April 2010 at 6:53 AM.
Mike,
Thanks for being so on top of this. It’s a shame that there are so many bozos out there (referring to the hoaxers, not Randall).
Rick Says:
28 April 2010 at 7:55 AM.
That is sad that it is more than likely a hoax, the find would have been significant. I’m sure the Ark was discovered and hauled off long ago and people like Ron Wyatt may just be disinformation agents. I think this is just the beginning of finding things from the Bible. Another earthquake somewhere in the world will suddenly unearth some Biblical artifact or location. Thanks for the insider info.
The Nerd Says:
28 April 2010 at 8:24 AM.
Any chance that he or someone else will come forward with an official statement about this?
sandy Says:
28 April 2010 at 9:32 AM.
In conjunction with project bluebeam which is a fake second coming; many archaeological finds will be made and the data used to dispute the Torah/Scripture/The Bible. It is all part of the process of prepping the masses for a One World Religion of the NWO. See the site strangedaysstrangeskies. We are seeing amazing chemtrails in the Tampa Bay area complete with rainbow colors, fading, color shifting, etc. UAFF.US has other good information. Best to you, sandy
Wolf Says:
28 April 2010 at 9:47 AM.
Until Randall’s accusations are proven true, they seem to be to have been born of financially-based resentment and racism. His account is not substantiated by any yet-known physical evidence, and contains mostly third- and four-hand rumors. His animosity toward the Chinese-Turkish team can be said to have been inspired by jealousy. Whether mainstream scientists recognize him as one of their own or not, he is still susceptible to the universal drive to be the first to discover things of significance.
jay Says:
28 April 2010 at 9:48 AM.
Look’s like a hoax!
Guardian Says:
28 April 2010 at 10:02 AM.
Well, it looks like Randall Price was not the only one fooled. I was too! Too good to be true I suppose. But who’s doing the fooling, the Turks and Kurds, or the Chinese? Surely the Chinese would know whether they were in part of the ark or not. This isn’t the Year of the Rat, is it?
Tony Harriman Says:
28 April 2010 at 11:10 AM.
Is there any pictoral evidence of the wood? being planted? Anything to substantiate that this is a hoax?
Becky Says:
28 April 2010 at 12:03 PM.
Im not sure why Ron Wyatt is a Charlitan but he has presented a lot of good evidence including the giant counter balancing weights all over the nearby land. I see this a case of the luciferian ptb, meant to be debunked disinfo to discredit what may well be the very site of the Ark.
Barry Says:
28 April 2010 at 1:09 PM.
No, if your “source” is legit, what is his name?
Conan Says:
28 April 2010 at 1:17 PM.
Still a tosser though.
S&F Says:
28 April 2010 at 4:32 PM.
You may be drawing a conclusion too soon. The language of Price is “reported to be” and “reputed to have been” and “are said to have planted” and “I was shown the cave”. This does not sound like first-hand information. Cobwebs on the Ark when it landed had to have been thick on the walls and ceilings. While the planet’s temperature became more seasonal over time – including colder – spiders and other insects remaining on the Ark would die, but in sealed compartments where even oxygen may be in short supply, cobwebs should have little trouble staying intact for over 4000 years. What if the cave is known to some locals and accessed as well? What if there have been timbers planted? How does that lessen the idea that the Chinese may have entered hidden chambers of wood on the site? Aren’t base camps around this mountain accessed by theists and atheists alike? How do you know that Parasut was not paid off to circulate the story about the photos originating in wrecks at the Black Sea?
courtnye Says:
28 April 2010 at 4:36 PM.
charlatans like Ron Wyatt?? Jerks !!
Matt Says:
28 April 2010 at 7:50 PM.
An update from Randall is at http://www.worldofthebible.com/news.htm
Jeffrey W. Griffith Says:
28 April 2010 at 11:08 PM.
So, will there be a more elaborate report on the hoax issued by Dr. Price and his students? And who is it that posted this story? I am not inimical to the alleged discovery being a hoax, as I suspected it when I first heard of it, but would still like to have a great deal more facts before reaching a judgment.
Christian Says:
28 April 2010 at 11:47 PM.
This is one of the most elaborate ruses around or the find of a century. The Randall Price’s synopsis seems to be Chinese Christians scam American Christian (himself) who are then in turn scammed by Turks? All the while the Turkish and Chinese governments and press are patsies during this ruse? The Turks scavenged wood from this mysterious Black Sea site from some yet unnamed structure then cart the wood up to 13,000 ft. and plant it in a cave? What sort of logistics are involved moving that material up that elevation? Nobody noticed any wood missing from the Black Sea site? I’m not trying to invalidate what Mr. Price says but am just trying to figure out what is going on here. There is also the cost benefits of this elaborate scam as well as the danger, if the Chinese government finds out this was a fraud how would that work out for these Chinese “Christians” who pulled this off? And why would Christians intentionally deceive the public and then head back to a communist country? Wouldn’t that be kind of dangerous? And why would they Turkish, Chinese or both think they could get away with something like this before it was outed? And who and how much do they stand to gain from this fraud if it is a fraud? There needs to be alot more information forthcoming and if this is a fraud this will make piltdown man and other evolutionary scams look like amateur hour.
The king! Says:
29 April 2010 at 12:00 AM.
The Chinese expedition is real, from what I can tell, the media wants to cover it up. They don’t want everyone to know about Noah’s Ark up on Mount Ararat. The constant proof against other religions would be majorly damaging.
God rules and He shows it with the REAL Noah’s Ark on Mount Ararat! God bless 
)
By the way, this article is a hoax! that’s my view ;o)
Robbie Armstrong Says:
29 April 2010 at 1:21 AM.
$100,000. Now that’s a fair chunk of change to lose. It’s unfortunate for Dr Price and other credible people investigating the ark’s possible location. At any rate, it is highly unlikely the ark would have come to rest some 4000 meters (13.000) feet up a mountain. How would four men get the animals down that kind of terrain? It’s more reasonable to search for archaelogical evidence of the earlier post-Flood human communities. Why would God instruct Noah to builid an ark the size and scale of an ocean going freighter, then gather animals and provender, then prepare Noah’s family for cataclysmic changes if He wasn’t going to provide a suitable, safe landing site in the end? The best terroir for Noah’s vineyard would have been on a steep hillside with a southwest exposure in a temperate climate, perhaps in the foothill region of ancient Urattu. It may have been that materials used to build the ark supplied ready made timbers for immediate settlement. One man’s opinion.
surrender-now Says:
29 April 2010 at 1:22 AM.
The only hoax is that Randall Price who is the leading advocate against the very existence of Jesus Christ, dismissing his life as a complete fairytale, would be invited on an Evangelical-Supported Biblical-Archeological Excavation.
Bob Says:
29 April 2010 at 6:35 AM.
His real degrees are a Masters in being a Preacher, and a Doctorate in reading and comprehending history books. No word on his reading comprehension skills towards fictional works with multiple authors.
Tyson Says:
29 April 2010 at 6:50 AM.
But why fake it? The what ends, money, fame, damage to God’s word?
Kathleen Coelho Says:
29 April 2010 at 7:54 AM.
It is definitely a hoax! The ark was discovered at least 20 or more years ago by Ron Wyatt (now deceased) and his team. The site is now secured by the Turkish government and people can see the ark from an obsevatory overlooking it. Check it out: http://www.wyattmuseum.com I have several of his videos which show their discoveries.
Geekoid Says:
29 April 2010 at 8:36 AM.
“Real Degree’s” don’t equate logical thinking. Anyone who believes Noah’s ark is a literal story is not thinking logically, and has not the actually studied the history of Bible.
Carl Says:
29 April 2010 at 8:43 AM.
Please clarify…” I was there at the time and knew about the hoax”. Randall invested 100K toward a project he knew was a hoax?
Ray Roberts Sr Says:
29 April 2010 at 11:58 AM.
This is very sad to push something like this on the public….it is well established that the Ark is not in Turkey…it is in Iran. I flew directly over Ararat and took photos…no bordering mountains around this mountain…where in Iran there is. I have tremendous confidence in Arch Bonnema and his finding in Iran in regards to the Ark. Sad that a few worked hard to make money and deceive some good honest Christians looking for the Ark. rr
jan rich Says:
29 April 2010 at 12:44 PM.
I think paleobabble is full of it. ‘that was nothing but hearsay. I’m surprised you reported it.
Rather Not Say Says:
29 April 2010 at 1:25 PM.
I was just wondering how you felt about Dr. Price indicating on his website ( http://www.worldofthebible.com/news.htm ) that he did not want his above email published on the internet?
Don D. Snow Says:
29 April 2010 at 1:36 PM.
I’d like to make a few comments, with no personal disrespect to any intended, I’m going with a blank slate about the people mentioned on this website.
First, the different books I’ve read about different expeditions to Mt. Ararat lead me to seriously doubt that the locals would have been part of the alleged fraud.
Second, I would like to point out, that the author of this article could have put words in Dr. Price’s mouth, to phrase it politely.
Third, there’s just Dr. Price’s say so, about the alleged fraud. Which statement could be in error.
Fourth, timber beams from the Black Sea area would not necessarily have the age that the beams on Mt. Ararat were dated at.
Fifth, this article, if true, stated that Dr. Price also was working on the Noah’s Ark at Mt. Ararat research. This opens Dr. Price to the suspicion that the motive of jealousy prompted him to compose the story of the alleged fraud.
Sixth, there’s also the credulous nature of people listening to a fallible human being with academic certification. Which is no guarantee of any moral character traits, in this age of moral relativism.
Therefore, in closing, my opinion has not altered, that if not the Ark, that the evangelical teams could have found the site of the old shrine, constructed of timbers from the Ark.
Just my two cents worth,
Don[/QUOTE]
R Smith Says:
29 April 2010 at 3:17 PM.
Really…… looking for the Ark???
Hard to feel sorry for a “scientist” with “real degrees” who spends his time looking for the Ark.
eccles Says:
29 April 2010 at 4:48 PM.
So it was a hoax. I thought as such, and the Media swallowed it. I get so sick of arguing with Christians about this and their stupid idea about a “God”. Well I had a great time at the Global Atheist Convention in Melbourne, Australia last March listening to Prof. Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers and especially Dan Barker (former evangilists, no Atheist).
Carter Says:
29 April 2010 at 5:13 PM.
You can prove it is fake if it says, “Made in China,” on the bottom of the boat.
Carter
Me Says:
29 April 2010 at 6:52 PM.
Price wasn’t duped. He knew about the hoax. This isn’t over yet. I bet Price finds the real deal soon.
UET Says:
30 April 2010 at 5:23 AM.
Why would anyone look for Noah’s ark in a not so ancient volcanic cone? Why would anyone expect a 4800 years old C14 date for Noah’s ark wood if C14 date for antediluvian wood should give the same C14 date as antediluvian coal or oil?
Paul Says:
1 May 2010 at 1:09 AM.
I think the Chinese team still needs to deliver solid evidence, especially about the
location (at least some pictures of the outside of the structure), but I think it’s a bit fast to jump to conclusions already.
Randall writes:
[http://ezekielcountdown.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/randall-price-ark-pictures-are-fake/]
“I and my partners invested $100,000 in this expedition (described below) which they have retained, despite their promise and our request to return it, since it was not used for the expedition.”
and
“The information given below is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard (from others who claim to have been eyewitnesses or know the exact details).”
and further on he writes:
“The Chinese team went in the late summer of 2009 (I was there at the time and knew about the hoax)”
and
“Last year we had a good expedition to a higher site (the satellite site) and this summer we will excavate the shepherd’s site and have every reason to expect success.”
So we can summarize:
- Randall has a financial claim of $100,000 on the Chinese team
- He is planning a (competing) expedition this summer to another location
- He already knew in 2009 about the supposed hoax
- A couple of days after the Chinese team had a press conference on their findings,
Randall comes with his opinion based on (supposedly) second or third-hand information.
So, other than hearsay Randall gives us no verifiable information,
admits he was involved and that he knew already in 2009 it was a hoax,
but apparently did not report about it, has a financial dispute with the Chinese team,
and has planned his own ark expedition this summer.
Furthermore, given the amount of wood on footage, and given that supposedly a truck
was needed to transport it (to the base of the mountain?), how was that wood supposedly transported to more than 4000m altitude in severe weather conditions on a mountain?
It all does not sound very convincing, does it?
Joe Zias Says:
1 May 2010 at 7:42 AM.
The question is where did Price get the 100,000 dollars, investors, is this a business or is this research? Neither Price, Wyatt, nor his predecessor Rives have any degree in archaeology. This is out and out archaeological fraud and has been going on for four decades. The money would be better spent in helping the poor, the blind and the halt instead of hoodwinking the public who deserve better. If those of you wish to believe, it is the ark, those of you wishing to know, out and out fraud on the part of too many people looking for the fast buck, nothing more and I’m willing to bet the farm that Price can kiss that 100,000 goodbye. He and others would do much better using this $$$ to study archaeology and not buy others off for dig permits whether it is in Israel or Turkey. All it takes is a BA to secure a dig permit here in Israel. One hundred thousand would easily cover it but the truth of the matter this is ’small change’ in terms of the money raked in off these schemes. PT Barnum was right.
Joe (former/retired curator of archaeology/anthropology Israel Antiquities Authority)
Art Bulla Says:
1 May 2010 at 9:41 AM.
Your view is rubbish. Anyone who believes in “the fairy tale for grownups” i.e. evolution, is a fool. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and know that evolution (your paradigm) is ludicrous. 4 billion years ago, the earth cooled, it rained on the rocks, the rock goo mixture came alive. Give me a break! Frankenstein had a better chance. At least he had body parts sewed together, you fool, to be quickened by the lightning you pagans worship. Fools and blind. See http://www.artbulla.com/zion/section14.pdf
LightonTruth Says:
1 May 2010 at 1:43 PM.
I don’t believe the email, If he had went on the trip he also would have some pictures. Secondly if he was there on the expedition why would he expect his money back? He claims he is the archaeologist with the expedition. I think he is lying in trying to make it appear like he went on the exposition, when in fact, he did not, and really don’t know what they found. This is and attempt to discredit the true find, because it makes Ron Wyatt’s find, bogas, and not the Ark, just like what was concluded decades earlier. That is the Ark in those pictures of mount Ararat, just where the Bible says it is. Sorry Ron, but you did find other artifacts of the Ark of Noah, But not the Ark itself.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:16 PM.
This really doesn’t have anything to do with Bluebeam (I’m familiar with that).
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:16 PM.
racism? utter nonsense.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:17 PM.
it’s just a student; he posts replies on this page, so if he permits me to post his name I’ll gladly do so. But I doubt that will make anyone less gullible.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:18 PM.
no. it’s not a toss-up.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:19 PM.
I’d love it if the ark was found, but your reply is (in part) illustrative of the problem — just guesswork and what if’s to explain the lack of hard data.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:19 PM.
thanks!
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:20 PM.
The Kurds know easy money when they see it. The ark is a sort of cottage industry for them.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:20 PM.
I’m guessing Randall will eventually have further comment.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:21 PM.
and your proof is …. ?
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:25 PM.
Randall Price is not an opponent of the historicity of Jesus. I think you have him confused with Robert Price.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:27 PM.
Randall Price has a PhD in Middle Eastern Studies from the University of Texas. You really sound uninformed in this reply. This information isn’t hard to find: http://www.worldofthebible.com/ourstaff.htm
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:28 PM.
Best scenario: The Kurds misled the Chinese team, which is offering fraudulent evidence unintentionally. Worse: The Chinese team was pretending to be Christians to steal lots of cash from investors.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:29 PM.
Ron Wyatt is even less credible.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:31 PM.
The ark story is hardly impossible, especially *if* the flood event was local, something that the Hebrew Bible can certainly be read to describe. My guess is that the story is a true tale whose description has been misunderstood in some fundamental ways due to an overly literalized reading with no sensitivity to things like genre, figures of speak, language of appearances, etc. (characteristics of all literary works, ancient of modern).
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:32 PM.
depends what “time” he means by “at the time.”
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:32 PM.
Now here’s an informed response.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:33 PM.
Ron Wyatt, however well intentioned he might have been, is a blight on “biblical archaeology”; it would be hard to find a less critical investigator.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:34 PM.
not sure who this is directed to – ? – since the post wasn’t about evolution.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:36 PM.
Nice to hear from you Joe (we chatted by email a while back re. the Jesus tomb). It’s true that Randall’s degrees are not specifically in archaeology. Your assessment about the wasted money (sadly) makes sense.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:37 PM.
yeah, real evidence — submitted for peer review — would be nice.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:39 PM.
There you go, using logic!
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:39 PM.
another informed response.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:41 PM.
it would be pretty cool, wouldn’t it? There was a time when people like Heinrich Schliemann thought so — and went looking for stuff. I’m glad people look, but that cannot excuse hoaxing and a lack of wisdom.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:43 PM.
I think it’s much ado about nothing. You can always change email or filter it. If you don’t want people finding you the last place you should have ANYTHING personal is on the internet. You don’t need posted emails to find that information.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:47 PM.
he is not a critical investigator. “Critical” means you are predisposed to having your evidence tested before you embrace it, ruling out all other possible interpretations or potential flaws in it. Wyatt did none of that.
MSH Says:
1 May 2010 at 3:48 PM.
If it’s not from 4800 BC and was put forth as such, that’s a hoax (or sheer stupidity). Not sure which is worse.
IO Says:
1 May 2010 at 5:18 PM.
I believe the real Ark landed on mount Iforas at the source of the river Ararat in West-Africa!
If this message is true, then apparently Dr. Price willfully financed the hoax in 2009 himself, or else is just fibbing a bit.
Raven Says:
2 May 2010 at 11:42 AM.
Get a life, stupidity perpetuating a myth, i would be really interested in knowing how anyone could buy into relegion,, a mass scam still stealing from billions.
Jim M Says:
2 May 2010 at 5:46 PM.
I think they have found the real thing and my Bible does not lie. It has been sighted before – a guy and his son years ago. its up there some where and its time to find it as it was constructed when all the earth was violent and wicked- just like what is happening now if you have noticed so the Ark will still preach Jesus- the only way to get right with God and avert the fire storm to come as we are in the last days folks.
I ‘ve done a bit of research and I think Wyatt was a biblical wacko but the popcorn Christian market will endorse anything right Opra?
This email guy and his story do not ring true in more ways than one.
lol
the truck that hauled the lumber up to 17000 feet etc etc etc holes everywhere
…and if you dont think the Bible is Gods word to a fallen world then you are lost and under condemnation that only Jesus can fix
shalom
j
Donald Nelson Says:
3 May 2010 at 10:35 AM.
Thirteen thousand feet.
THIRTEEN THOUSAND FEET.
Water seeks its own level, and at that height it would have had to cover the entire planet.
200 cubic miles of water came to earth and left earth in 40 days.
Should be an oil ring somewhere
MSH Says:
3 May 2010 at 10:07 PM.
The “email guy” was a member of the original team. The wood from the Navarra (sp?) “find” turned out to not date anywhere near the time of Noah by biblical chronology (this was published decades ago; the testing was done at the Univ of Pennsylvania). You make the mistake of connecting believing this particular claim with the trustworthiness of the Bible. There is no necessary connection.
MSH Says:
3 May 2010 at 10:08 PM.
yeah, Mother Teresa made a bundle. And there are no scientists or doctors or lawyers or PhDs who have any faith commitment. Right. This has to be one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever seen on this or any blog. I’m thrilled to approve it, since it will live forever in all its absurdity on my blog.
MSH Says:
3 May 2010 at 10:10 PM.
Well, contributing to it and “financing” it aren’t exactly the same. I don’t believe for a minute Randall would knowingly put up money for a fraud. I know him — not real well — but I think well enough to feel secure that he wouldn’t do this.
MSH Says:
3 May 2010 at 10:21 PM.
I understand your point, but for the water to seek its own level around the world presumes that it would (globally) have no place to go. I’m not a geologist, but I’m pretty sure that is a fallacious assumption (i.e., a localized flood isn’t ruled out by this figure — and it also assumes there was no change in the geography for the last five millennia [by biblical chronology]). Lastly, the biblical text doesn’t actually say the ark landed “on Mount Ararat” – rather, it says “on the mountains [plural] of Ararat” (Gen 8:4). Since a single boat could not rest on multiple peaks, the phrase is best understood as the ark coming to rest somewhere within the Ararat range. We have no reason to suspect (biblically) that the ark came to rest at the tippy top or near the top. The biblical account also does not tell us that the peaks of the mountains were not visible WHEN the ark came to rest. We would assume they were quite visible. The “language of appearances” in the biblical text about the waters covering all the high mountains could be literary hyperbole – or, since the story takes place in Mesopotamia (where are the big mountains there?) it could mean that, as far as the experiencers (Noah and those with him) could see, all those “mountains” were covered. The mountains or Ararat are hundreds of miles away — no one could physically see them. All this is standard fare for a local flood view, and you can read it ad nauseum if you like. The biblical story may simply relate to a localized catastrophe and response to it. There *is* geological evidence for that sort of event, and that may be the (simpler) point of the story.
william Says:
4 May 2010 at 12:35 AM.
Michael,
For you to discount this Chinese “evangelical” team simply via Randall Price’s email is as naive as believing the Chinese team [I]did[/I] find the Noah’s Ark via their short choppy film and some photos. I expected you’d have more discernment and objectivity in such matters. In my short life-time, I encounter far too many so-called Christians with post-grad degrees who behaved as if their layer of degrees were sign of honesty be default. In fact, they were more ‘educated’ in hiding their jealousy and dishonesty.
Moreover, by looking at his website, I do sense that Randall Price is a Christian Zionist and a dispensational Christian with an agenda of his own. To say that Price is looking out for the well-being of Christendom is not entirely accurate. He is looking out for his brand of “Christianity.” Thus, it could be valid for some posters to say, there is a hint of “racism” on the part of Price.
bob weir Says:
4 May 2010 at 1:30 AM.
For everyone’s information, even if the spiders wherealready in the ark when the ark landed- and im sure there were, along with spiderwebs and they could have stayed intact for 5 thousand years – yes. or they are cobwebs from spiders right there in that area. spiders have been found at 22000 feet on everest(look it up if you dont believe me) – so in the summertime spiders could have gotten in there easily!!!!! – one more thing – those cobwebs are in tact from that structure the way it stands now. the wood was supposedly taken up there in seperate pieces – so how could a fully intact cobweb be intact as the structure stands now – meaning they would have had to take that whole side or wall in one piece to keep that cobweb intact. sorry folks but i have completely blown your cobweb theory out of the water. spiders live at 13000 feet and higher and because randall price says something doesnt mean its so – whats his motive , money, spiritual belief/bias, geo political, whatever man i dont know – but figure the stuff out for yourself – i did!
bob weir Says:
4 May 2010 at 4:34 AM.
Randall Price had mentioned that the inside of the log structure wasn’t legitimate because there were cob webs inside it. How is that so hard to believe? There were obviously spiders on the inside of the ark when it landed, so it’s not impossible to have these cibwebs preserved for five thousand years? Another thing is that Spiders do live at thirteen thousand feet. On mt. Everest they found spiders at 22,000 feet. This is true, you can look it up. So the fact that there are spiders in there even now isn’t surprising, of course they could have made webs in there in the summer months. So the fact that there are spider webs in there doesnt disprove anything.
Peter Says:
4 May 2010 at 10:37 AM.
mathmatically the ark could not have been built and housed all the animals and family… i used to be brainwashed and single minded as well, but you can think logically.. and the ones that think the bible is true, then you follow a sick god that allows genocide, rape, slavery in the bible..ohh and if you go to the new testament.. they cant even get the geneology of jesus right in the gospels ..its different in two gospels.. if you want to believe in fairy tales then i guess thats what you need..
Anonymous Says:
4 May 2010 at 6:30 PM.
why wont you print my response- cant handle the fact that someone knows more than you? – whats your motive for not printing my response? if you cant except free speech – what the hell are you doing? youll printy something from an athiest, but you wont print my response which is backed by proof and truth? small minds over censor the truth.
Jeff Little Says:
5 May 2010 at 6:24 AM.
>Randall invested 100K toward a project he knew was a hoax?
Because the whole flood thing didn’t happen. Might as well make some money off of some stupid people.
Bark Says:
6 May 2010 at 3:41 PM.
Even the Mayans have a Flood story. Why can’t people wrap thier brains around the fact the serpent is control of this earth and ptb, till Christs return and any and all stories that could possibly point to the stories of the bible being true are just not in thier best interest. I trust nothing anymore. People can be manipulated and the chinese work with the US, as well as russia in these days. There are lots of pictures of plain everyday people vacationing and going to the site and pictures to prove it. There is a giant boat there. How the heck did it get there if there wasnt a flood? its appears to be petrified over much of it. Which would lend to its age. Thats enough for me not say the whole thing is a hoax because I believe that thats whats at the heart of this. There is a world wide assualt on Christianity now days and it isnt hapenstance, it’s spiritual. The title of the post by michael is general and leads to instant assumption that the whole site is babble, I agree to disagree with that Idea.
Julia Says:
6 May 2010 at 6:30 PM.
I really hope that it’s not a fraud; even if it is, I hope that one day soon the real Ark will be found. When it is found I’d like to be there to see it. Wouldn’t that be awesome?
Brian Says:
7 May 2010 at 7:39 AM.
To Donald Nelson’s comment:
Yes water covered the entire earth which included the 200 miles and left the earth in 40 days. It’s in the Bible. That my friend is the power of God!
MSH Says:
7 May 2010 at 10:54 AM.
This is a bit silly. If the ark were found that would help Price in what he does – so why oppose it without reason?
MSH Says:
7 May 2010 at 10:55 AM.
yes, we’d all be better off if there were no free will – huh?
MSH Says:
7 May 2010 at 10:57 AM.
first, comments are not “printed.” I approve comments unless they are profane. I also use two spam filters, so you may be getting weeded out. I love nonsensical comments – the more insipid the better, since they will live forever on the web in all their absurdity.
Laura Houston Says:
7 May 2010 at 11:19 AM.
so easy to scam people when they are searching for something wonderfull isn’t it.
Sometimes we must use “commen sense” when there are caves uncovered in countries that are ancient with histories that go back thousands of years. Caves like this would have been used for living or storage. The product used inside those caves to make shelves,walls, bins, whatever..local wood at the time.
Now it is STILL very interesting that there is wood to study that is 4,800 year old wood. Still worthy of study and I am SURE they could tell by testing what that wood was used for.
However the story about the flood and Ark is just text from a book and sometimes you will never find the dragon if you’re chasing him.
Arkalogik Says:
8 May 2010 at 8:34 AM.
I would like to point out something that I have not heard anyone else mention about the details of the video. If you watch the video details at the point that they lower themselves down into the chamber with white pellets on the ground…..in the background you can see what appears to be either a ceramic pot or possibly a basket? It can be clearly seen at 3 different times if you watch very closely….I have heard no mention of it at all. I would think this would be mentioned as part of their findings. Pottery can usually be dated to it’s specific culture and would tell us where this was from. Surely there would be a FULL video of the search as well….the ones released are obviously edited….why not release the WHOLE video?
seekandfind Says:
8 May 2010 at 11:41 AM.
We obviously have not heard the end of the matter. The chinese are sticking to their story and Price’s character and motives have never settled right with me. If Price is removed from the picture, we are left with a team of explorers who say they have entered chambers made of ancient wood at 4000 meters up Mt. Ararat. If that claim is in any way substantiated by first-hand scientific scrutiny, we will have just felt the earth move.
sandshoe Says:
10 May 2010 at 12:28 AM.
If a big boat was found on the top of a mountain – it could mean that it was built on the top of the mountain. Why would someone build a boat on the top of a mountain? Maybe a dude who thought there was going to be a global flood?
Maybe, the builder sat in the boat for over a month, on the top of a mountain, ate all the supplies, whilst the rains persisted, then abandoned the project when the rains stopped and he realised it was not the global coverage he’d expected?
Maybe, the Noah story is really meant to teach us not to be so easily panicked into building boats on the top of mountains?
peace ~.~
Simo Perho Says:
19 May 2010 at 7:18 AM.
It is too early to make any judgements of the genuiness of the ark. Let the archeologists do their work on the site. The time will tell…
bob Says:
19 May 2010 at 2:43 PM.
It is sad to see so much money and energy trying to prove a fairy tale. It could have been spent doing the things Jesus preached-feeding the poor and healing the sick. But actually living Jesus’s message is too difficult and it’s lots more fun to hate our neighbor-look at the tea Klans-The vast majority are wrinkled old white “christians” worried some colored person may get something for free, or even just get something, they should still be slaves dammit! Wake up people, I talk to God every day and he says you are all crazy and wasting your time but that’s the point of his scrambling your brains and tongues at the tower of babble anyway. (tower of babble=fox news HQ)
bob Says:
19 May 2010 at 2:51 PM.
by the way, after 12 years of studying mayan history and culture I have to correct a couple of misconceptions. there is NO mayan “Flood Story,” period. None.2012 is NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. 2012 is the end of the long cycle’s 3rd section and the point where you BEGIN COUNTING AGAIN. This is only one of many different stellar charts in use by some of the worlds earliest cosmologists and they serve to track the motion of the stars, not to make any sort of prophetic statement.
MSH Says:
19 May 2010 at 8:35 PM.
Obviously, you’re just another militant rationalist trying to suppress the truth of the 2012 end of the world.
MSH Says:
19 May 2010 at 8:36 PM.
I think you mean MSLSD.
D.GALAL Says:
27 May 2010 at 7:18 AM.
Discovery of Noah’s Ark in Yemen Hadramawt Shabwa MUST WATCH!!! shipnoah.com
emma Says:
31 May 2010 at 9:22 PM.
Sixty thousand or one hundred thousand Euros (as I recalled the figure) seems to be too little money to con for all the troubles that went into setting up the hoax.
Besides, I don’t think the team Hong Kong is audacious enough to claim to have entered a structure at the altitude claimed while it wasn’t so. Remember it was not only a couple of people who went in.
I suspect it is because of the perceived animosity towards Islam that could be found on the website(s) of Dr Price’s ministries that led to the Turks’ reluctance to work with him. There is also a little bit of politics involved, probably. The Turkish government probably did not want any Americans to claim having found the ark first.
MSH Says:
1 June 2010 at 3:25 PM.
Anyone committed to Islam would not need anything like this to set them off. If the ark is found on Ararat, then the Qur’an would be proven inaccurate. THAT is the issue for many Muslims with respect to this whole topic. Here is Surah 11:44 in the Qur’an: “Then the word went forth: “O earth! Swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!” and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: “Away with those who do wrong!”
Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Meaning of the Holy Qur’an (Electronic version.; (2004)).
Mount Judi is not Ararat. Islamic and Syriac tradition identifies Mount Judi as a peak near the town of Jazirat ibn Umar (modern Cizre), at the headwaters of the Tigris, near the modern Syrian-Turkish border.
RS Says:
3 June 2010 at 6:50 PM.
I know Dr. Price and he is a sincere and seemingly good man.Dr. Cargill has the ight idea. If someone was truly sincere and attempted to contact any of these good archaeologists with data
that could be followed through even if a baby step at a time and it could be verified accordingly, about something up there on Greater Mt. Ararat, the sad thing is all of those making claims every year make it very hard for someone who may have some possible data that may eventually take some ofm these good archaeologists and change their mind enough to where if credible may be worth following through with. However, suppose someone who did maybe have something may never be paid attention to at all .Because archaeologists believe that anyone prsenting anything along such lines must certainly be wrong. True discoveries therefore may go abandoned lost in the cooridors of time
KD Says:
6 June 2010 at 11:27 PM.
One comment made about the pictures by Randall Price is wrong. Two minutes on google was all it took to confirm there COULD be spiders webs at that altitude!!!
However I am concerned that the video footage doesn’t “document” what the still images shows, and also that the image on Noahs Ark Ministries International claiming to show space number #7, purported to be 5m x 12m large, looks on close inspection to be a closeup image of something else, perhaps an old leather base with a fibrous fringe, that may look like a wooden structure when viewed in low resolution. Luckily NAMI allow you to maximise the image, then it looks very fake, with the tell tale uneven focus of a close-up!
Jealous Gods. Says:
10 June 2010 at 5:21 AM.
Gilgamesh. The deluge is a constant throughout literature. Lets not stare into the abyss without knowing it’s true definition.
RayFR Says:
17 June 2010 at 7:58 AM.
Questions: Is the artifact in a glacier, or is it buried in stable ice? If a glacier then it is less likely to be the Ark, because even at glacial speed, it would have moved down the mountain by now. However, if it is buried under stable ice then it has potential. I don’t think the word ‘glacier’ is on the Nami web site.
What about the modern-appearing rope in the video? Is it conceivable that antediluvians had rope that looked so much like today’s?
Good point about analyzing the pottery on the shelf in the video. If from the Ark there should be no historical correlate.
Any more comment on the odd (rough) wall construction in space number 7? KD, how could it be leather? Unless you are asserting out right fraud, I doubt it is taken from outside the site.
Overall, sub zero temperatures and being buried by ice is a plausible scenario for preserving an artifact indefinitely.
As to the water going down in 40 days, Henry Morris argued the biblical text asserts 150 days of ‘assuaging’, and a total of almost exactly a year for the whole time of the flood.
If it is the Ark, the geology textbooks (just for starters) must be largely junked, at least as far as their interpretation of time and sedimentary rock formation.
Biblically, most of the water for the flood apparently came from within the crust, having been placed there at creation, God knowing he would ‘need’ it later for the flood. In the flood account the first thing that happened was not rain fall: it was the breaking up of all the fountains of the great deep. This is a geologically plausible scenario, as the violent scrambling/grinding of the rocks would produce huge volumes of sediment, which gradually settled out in to layers containing the drowned biota, making what is now the fossiliferous sedimentary rock layers that are the most common rock on the surface of the earth. Just what you’d expect if Noah’s flood really happened.
Rom 1 18 Says:
23 June 2010 at 2:02 PM.
Ridiculous comments, the timbers are obviously to huge to get 4000 feet above sea level. A truck drove the timbers up. Come on, use your heads! There is no way those timbers were recently deposited on that mountain. It may or may not be the ark but the comments are nothing but rumor.
kalamus Says:
3 July 2010 at 3:58 AM.
This guy dr price just cant cope with the thought that the chinese found the real ark. You can imagine how the turks are pissed of with this guy. The real ark has been found get used to it !!
MSH Says:
3 July 2010 at 3:37 PM.
so…where’s the peer-reviewed testing? the location? the verification? ANYTHING besides a picture inside the “ark” that doesn’t provide scale OR validation of an actual Ararat location (i.e., without that, you have nothing — the picture could be taken inside a cabin). If this discovery is on the up and up, and if these people are CHristians, then they should be motivated by honesty and intergrity.
RayFR Says:
3 July 2010 at 6:59 PM.
Hey MSH,
Fair points, but given the frailty of the situation they are just being prudent. Though it is reportedly 13,000 feet up the mountain and hard to get to, you can’t be too careful because of the enormity of the find (if it is real). So we ought not yet find them dishonest and lacking in integrity, but should wait and see. How would you like the responsibility of properly managing such a discovery? Hopefully we’ll hear more soon.
MSH Says:
3 July 2010 at 7:38 PM.
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t see how the situation is frail unless they were doing something illegal (i.e., they were somewhere without permission). In that case, they should have been smarter. Had they gotten official credentials or been attached to a real research institution (like a university), this sort of situation (as we are imagining it) would not have been at issue.
Jamal Anwar Says:
3 July 2010 at 9:15 PM.
It’s all about the money.
all the details on parasut and the chinese team is here
http://www.worldofthebible.com/news.htm
hj Says:
4 July 2010 at 1:34 PM.
One problem with this is that, according to young-earth creationists, Mount Ararat did not exist before the flood, and could only have appeared after. That may be why the bible states that the ark landed in the ‘mountains of ararat’ (One translation I’ve read actually has mountains of Armenia, not ararat). This won’t really be a problem however, if you accept an old-earth, though we’d still have to explain how a boat could get that high up on a mountain.
RayFR Says:
4 July 2010 at 7:00 PM.
MSH, one concern is that someone could contaminate, plunder (or worse, purposively damage) the site. From what I’ve read they are operating with the knowledge of Turkish authorities (some of whom participated in announcement ceremonies). It would be hard for a secular university to underwrite such an expedition, because they would think it impossible for the ark to be there.
Jamar, I read the lengthy post you referenced, but can’t really say it is certainly disqualifies the site. Dr. Price never observed the site, and is careful to say it may be legitimate, but that more proof is needed.
Hj, It’s true that, generally speaking, a young earth creationist would say most mountain ranges are the result of post-flood orogeny, but there would have to be exceptions because, like you say, the Bible says the ark came to rest on mountains.
One thing that would be important to me is if the outer wall of the structure was found to be coated inside and out with something like tar (pitch).
What do you all think of the view that the sediment rock layers (like in Grand Canyon) must have been deposited quickly because that is about the only way you could preserve the animals in them as fossils? I mean, like when a deer dies in the woods it doesn’t last very long – a pack of coyotes will smell it and fight over it, scattering it around the woods overnight. Even the bones get scattered and eaten, which is why if you go out in the woods you seldom see a remains of a dead animal.
MSH Says:
5 July 2010 at 3:17 PM.
I’m not a geologist so I don’t render opinions on geology.
RayFR Says:
5 July 2010 at 6:59 PM.
MSH, That point about sediment having to be rapidly deposited to preserve the fossils is held by some geologists. I’m not a geologist either (my brother-in-law is an evolutionary geologist), but I have a some understanding of the basics, and can point things out that merit a reasonable response from geologists.
When I asked him about the sediment argument, he said that the individual layers were deposited quickly, but the millions of years happened between the layers.
My response was that the layers often cover vast regions, and normally show no evidence of erosion between them. Even when erosion between layers is observed, you can travel laterally and find where the layers grade smoothly in to each other again, indicating whatever caused the erosion was a local event rather than something that took a long time.
MSH Says:
5 July 2010 at 7:23 PM.
I’m aware of all that. I’m also aware that there are other interpretations (by CHristians, no less) that disagree, or they will refer to places where the picture isn’t so neat. (When I was in grad school we had a PhD student in geology in our church; she was an old-earther and thought Morris and co. were atrocious — but I’m easily lost in all the geo-talk).
Enze Says:
6 July 2010 at 3:12 PM.
Well, I sure hope this is the ark! I’ve always thought Judaism was a fine religion.
RayFR Says:
6 July 2010 at 6:30 PM.
I guess there will be ‘other interpretations’ until we get the incontrovertable one at the end of time, and I know the actual rock evidence is often complex. But in the mean time theories ought to bear up under scrutiny. Does another interpretation of the sediment seem tenable to you? My brother-in-law knows a lot more geological terms and concepts than me, but he didn’t have an answer to my thoughts.
May I ask what you studied in grad school?
MSH Says:
6 July 2010 at 10:20 PM.
it’s at the “About” page on the blog.
RayFR Says:
7 July 2010 at 9:55 AM.
Well! A philologist! Very impressive background. Have you read ‘That Hideous Strength’? Do you have ‘Annals of the World’ in English by Ussher? Its my poor man’s access to classical history.
MSH Says:
7 July 2010 at 7:03 PM.
answer: partially and no.
RayFR Says:
7 July 2010 at 8:09 PM.
Have you read anything you liked by C.S. Lewis? I just re-read ‘That Hideous Strength’ with profit.
Adan Says:
9 July 2010 at 1:03 AM.
Sorry guys, the ark’s just been found:
http://adaeveningnews.com/local/x739949363/Noahs-Ark-discovered
Adan Says:
9 July 2010 at 1:04 AM.
http://adaeveningnews.com/local/x739949363/Noahs-Ark-discovered
Looks like they already found Noah’s ark….Again.
MSH Says:
9 July 2010 at 8:01 AM.
This is fun. Yeah. No possibility anyone could have dragged wood up a mountain. No – it MUST be the ark. My favorite line in the piece, though, has to be this one: “Scientists also postulated another possibility is space aliens put it there.” Yeah. Right. I wonder which “scientists” are saying space aliens came here and put the ark here (or a few random timbers). Let me guess. They earned their PhDs at the University of Roswell.
Adan Says:
9 July 2010 at 10:00 AM.
@MSH: This is actually a rather old discovery. They claimed to have found pieces of dung from every continent in the world, and that the area was rich in animal-life. That’s the only article on it. It goes to show that you really can’t trust all these ark claims, and as of yet NAMI has to show us proof that is even a boat. As that article states, It’s much more likely the ark did land in Iran, and was dismantled and destroyed by future generations.
RayFR Says:
9 July 2010 at 7:49 PM.
Ok, ok, but you don’t want to be a mere scoffer. The possibility is real that the ark (given it being historical) could survive. My money is on the noaharksearch.net people, at least as far as plausible-so-far goes.
MSH, you’re right on the appeal to space aliens. Reminds me of Dr. Francis Crick’s directed panspermia idea. He admitted biological life was too complex to have arisen on earth by natural means, but instead of acknowledging a superintelligent creator he opted for alien intervention. That’s just side-stepping the issue – he moved the problem to another planet without dealing with it.
RayFR Says:
11 July 2010 at 7:59 PM.
Adan, at least if you consider the biblical record, it says the ark came to rest ‘upon the mountains of Ararat’. It was not until 2 and 1/2 months later that the tops of nearby mountains could even be seen, and Mt. Ararat is the highest peak in Turkey, so it is a feasible choice.
As to dismantling it for firewood or building materials, its possible that was unnecessary because of log mats left laying around from the flood. Too, it may have quickly become pretty difficult to get to the ark because of its elevation and access slope.
arifsaleh Says:
22 July 2010 at 1:41 AM.
ship noah in yemen hadramoot and shabwa on URL http://WWW.SHIPNOAH.COM
RayFR Says:
23 July 2010 at 6:59 PM.
arifsaleh, I went to shipnoah.com, but the English translation feature would not work – I can’t read Arabic.
