The Sirius Mystery: You Don’t Need Columbo For This One

[[UPDATE: Talk about good timing!  I guess the person who wrote this article, dated today, does need Columbo; –MSH]]

I’m hoping my reference to the venerable TV detective doesn’t date me too much here!

Way back in 2009 I wrote the only post on this blog about the so-called “Sirius Mystery.” This mystery has to do with how a primitive African tribe, the Dogon, had advanced knowledge of a system of stars that make up what we see with the naked eye as one star — Sirius. My post was brief, directing readers’ attention to another brief, but well done, post on the Bad Archaeology website devoted to the subject, as well as two articles on how the Dogon could have visually seen “beyond” the single star Sirius. (After all, that is the issue — how did they know that naked eye Sirius is actually a cluster of stars?) It doesn’t take much imagination to discern that this is serious (pardon the pun) fodder for ancient astronaut believers.

It’s time to revisit the “Sirius Mystery” in a bit more detail. There has been some additional recent work on the subject by anthropologists to which I want to draw your attention. But to make it easier to follow, let’s start at the beginning.

The Dogon and Sirius

The Bad Archaeology page on the Sirius Mystery has summarize the basic details well:

In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago…. Temple begins with the work of Marcel Griaule (1898-1956) and Germaine Dieterlen (1903-1999), a pair of French anthropologists who worked in what is now Mali from 1931 to 1956. They reported an apparently anomalous knowledge of astronomy that formed part of the traditional lore of the Dogon, a people of the central plateau of Mali. This knowledge is alleged to include accounts of the rings of Saturn, the presence of four moons orbiting Jupiter and, most surprisingly of all, an account of two companions of the star Sirius. Griaule first published this data in Dieu d’eau (‘God of Water’, 1948), in which he records his conversations with a blind hunter, Ogotemmêli, who claimed to have extensive knowledge of Dogon lore, much of which was restricted to certain tribal elders. Griaule and Dieterlen were able to synthesise the cosmogony from Ogotemmêli’s statements. Temple was most impressed by the Dogon belief in a complex system of stars making up what we see as the single star, Sirius. This is the brightest star in our skies and, according to the Dogon, as reported by Griaule and Dieterlen, is actually a bright star with several smaller (even ‘invisible’) companions. Focusing especially on a representation of the system drawn by Ogotemmêli (who, it must be remembered, was blind), Temple recognised the highly elliptical orbit of Sirius B, a white dwarf first photographed in 1970, around the principal star of the system, Sirius A. Moreover, Temple found reference to a third component of the system, dubbed Sirius C by the astronomers who accepted its existence (its existence had been suggested but never observed). According to the Dogon, this knowledge had been imparted by the Nommo, fish-like water spirits, in the distant past.

From this information, Temple goes on to theorize that the “fish-like water spirits” were extraterrestrials. He finds proof for his notion from the Babylonian writer Berosssus who wrote of a hybrid fish-man who “emerged from the Persian Gulf to teach humanity various arts of civilisation. This creature is thought to be the Uan (or Uanna) of Babylonian myth, sometimes identified with Adapa, the equally mythical first king of Eridu, also identified by some with Atrahasis, the hero of the Babylonian version of the flood legend.” (Bad Archaeology)

While this string of non-sequiturs on the ancient Mesopotamian material is interesting enough, I want to stick to the item that started Temple down this rabbit hole: the Dogon knowledge of Sirius.

Recent Work on the Dogon and Sirius: 1980s and 1990s

In my earlier post on this subject, I linked readers to two essays from the book Blacks in Science: Ancient & Modern (Journal of African Civilizations), by Ivan Van Sertima (Transaction Publishers, 1983). The first essay speculated about whether the Dogon may have had a primitive optical instrument and, more importantly, how early Chinese records indicated that astronomers had been able to make naked eye observations of one of Jupiter’s moons. Another example came from an 1852 letter from a missionary who documented the same observation. Further, under optimal conditions, people in contemporary times with good visual acuity can see two galaxies (M31, the Andromeda) and M33 (a spiral galaxy in the constellation Triangulum) with the naked eye. These examples are concrete, secure parallels to the Dogon knowledge of the Sirius cluster. No aliens needed. The article went on to discuss techniques used by ancients for making such observations (called “dark eye” techniques). The second essay discusses how the Dogon may have been able to see Sirius B, a star in the cluster that, due to its high magnitude, should not be viewable to the naked eye. Collectively, these essays show there is no reason to suspect that a member of the ancient Dogon tribe, or others at any other place on the globe, thousands of years ago, could not see these things. This undermines the entire premise of Temple and his Sirius Mystery.

The Bad Archaeology site notes:

… by the time Temple had published the second edition of The Sirius Mystery in 1998, the whole question of the Dogon’s apparently inexplicable knowledge of Sirius had been blown apart. No-one had questioned Griaule and Dieterlen’s findings until the early 1990s. And this is where the problems for the hypothesis began. In 1991, the anthropologist Walter van Beek undertook fieldwork among the Dogon, hoping to find evidence for their knowledge of Sirius. As the earlier authors had indicated that aorund 15% of the adult males were initiated into the Sirius lore, this ought to have been a relatively easy task. However, van Beek was unable to find anyone who knew about Sirius B. As ought to have been obvious from the outset, Griaule and Dieterlen’s reliance on a single informant – Ogotemmêli – severely compromises the validity of their data. But it gets worse. The Dogon themselves do not agree that Sigu tolo is Sirius: it is the bright star that appears to announce the beginning of a festival (sigu), which some identify with Venus, while others claim it is invisible. To polo is not Sirius B, as it sometimes approaches Sigu tolo, making it brighter, while it is sometimes more distant, when it appears as a group of twinkling stars (which sounds like a description of the Pleiades). All in all, the ‘inexplicable’ astronomical knowledge turns out to be too confused to bear the interpretation put on it by Griaule and Dieterlen.

The research of van Beek (and co-authors) alluded to above can be found in this 1991 article:

Walter E. A. van Beek, R. M. A. Bedaux, Suzanne Preston Blier, Jacky Bouju, PeterIan Crawford, Mary Douglas, Paul Lane, Claude Meillassoux, “The Dogon Restudied: A Field Evaluation of the Work of Marcel Griaule [and Comments and Replies],” Current Anthropology Vol. 32, No. 2 (Apr., 1991), pp. 139-167

The abstract of the article notes:

“This restudy of the Dogon of Mali asks whether the texts produced by Marcel Griaule depict a society that is recognizable to the re- searcher and to the Dogon today and answers the question more or less in the negative. The picture of Dogon religion presented in Dieu d’eau and Le renard pale proved impossible to replicate in the field, even as the shadowy remnant of a largely forgotten past. The reasons for this, it is suggested, lie in the particular field situation of Griaule’s research, including features of the ethnographer’s approach, the political setting, the experience and predilections of the informants, and the values of Dogon culture.”

Note: In what follows, van Beek uses the following abbreviations for books written by Griaule on the Dogon:

DE = In Dieu d’eau: Entretiens avec Ogotemmeli [“God of Water: Conversations with Ogotemmeli”]  (Griaule 1948, hereafter DE); this is the book that made Griaule world-famous. It was published before his collaboration with Dieterlen — the next book:

RP = Le renard pale [“The Pale Fox”] (Griaule and Dieterlen I965, hereafter RP); this book is the one referred to by Bad Archaeology. It is the one that contains most of the material about Sirius and the Dogon.

I recommend the article to readers, as it has a very good summary of Dogon cosmology (pp. 140-141, 148-151), drawing on DE and RP, and the fact that the cosmological recounting of the single informant of Griaule and Dieterlen (Ogotemmêli) differs from all other Dogon accounts. This means that, among other issues, the source upon which Robert Temple based his ancient astronaut speculations are quite idiosyncratic, as the Bad Archaeology site noted. Van Beek goes even further than that, though. Quoting from his re-study, Van Beek notes that the views of Ogotemmêli are simply not recognizable to those leaders he talked to (p. 148) and “that Sirius is a double star is unknown; astronomy is of very little importance in religion. Dogon society has no initiatory secrets beyond the complete mastery of publicly known texts . . . The water spirit Nommo is not a central figure in Dogon thought and has none of the characteristics of a creator or a redeemer … Cosmological symbolism is not the basis of any Dogon cultural institutions . . . Confronted with parts of the stories provided by Ogotemmeli or given in the Renard pale, my informants emphatically state that they have never heard of them.” (p. 148)

On page 149 van Beek adds:

Is Sirius a double star? The ethnographic facts are quite straightforward. The Dogon, of course, know Sirius as a star (it is after all the brightest in the sky), calling it dana tolo, the hunter’s star (the game and the dogs are represented by Orion’s belt). Knowledge of the stars is not important either in daily life or in ritual. The position of the sun and the phases of the moon are more pertinent for Dogon reckoning. No Dogon outside the circle of Griaule’s informants had ever heard of sigu tolo or p6 tolo, nor had any Dogon even heard of eme ya tolo (according to Griaule in RP Dogon names for Sirius and its star companions). Most important, no one, even within the circle of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a double star (or, according to RP, even a triple one, with B and C orbiting A). Consequently, the purported knowledge of the mass of Sirius B or the orbiting time was absent. The scheduling of the sigu ritual is done in several ways in Yugo Doguru, none of which has to do with the stars.” (pp. 149-150)

In a nutshell, the foundation of Robert Temple’s Sirius Mystery (and the nonsense that has accrued to it since its publication) consists of three conversations with one Dogon tribesman, whose ideas differ from all subsequent Dogon elders interviewed to date. (And then there are the flaws in what Temple does with this idiosyncratic musings). Nice. A word like “flimsy” doesn’t begin to tell the story.

Contemporary Work on the Dogon: 2004

In 2004 Dr. van Beek published an essay in a scholarly journal that is, in essence, a retrospect of his work on Griaule of 1991 and the Sirius silliness:

Walter E. A. van Beek, “Haunting Griaule: Experiences from the Restudy of the Dogon,” History in Africa 31 (2004), pp. 43-68

Van Beek begins the article whimsically:

“It really was a chance occasion, just before Christmas 2003. On my way to the Dogon area I had greeted my friends in Sangha, and was speaking with a Dutch friend, when a French tourist lady suddenly barged into the hall of the hotel and asked me: “There should be a cav- ern with a mural depicting Sirius and the position of all the planets. I saw it in a book. Where is it?”. My friend smiled wrily, amused by the irony of situation: by chance the lady had fallen upon the one who had spent decennia to disprove this kind of “information”. “In what book?” I asked, and named a few. It was none of these, and she could not tell me. Cautiously (maybe she had planned her whole trip around this Sirius “experience”) I explained to her that though there was a lot to see, this particular mural did not exist. She left immediately, proba- bly convinced she stumbled on a real ignoramus.”

I wonder what book the lady had read (!)

Van Beek’s essay tells the reader how his decades-long interest in the Dogon began (it had nothing to do with Griaule) and how that interest drew him into pop (cult, fringe) archeology and anthropology. It’s an interesting, light read for the most part. Some excerpts are worth citing for our purposes here:

But at the time-we are writing 1979 for the start of my own field- work-the Griaule ethnography had already come under criticism. The most severe came from a Belgian dissertation by Dirk Lettens, defended at Nijmegen University under Albert Trouwborst (Lettens 1971). Later, after the publication of my Current Anthropology article, Trouwborst-with whom I shared many interuniversity committees, as well as the board of the Dutch Africanist Association-confided me that at the time he thought Lettens overly critical: surely it could not have been that bad. But Lettens was right on target. His title, Mythagogie et Mystification, still is unsurpassed as a characterization of Griaule’s post-1948 writings. Although criticism was given in many countries, (Saccone 1984), the discussion through David Tait (1950), Mary Douglas (1967, 1968) and eventually James Clifford (1983) was to be much more influential. (p. 48)

One wonders why Robert Temple’s work on the “Sirius Mystery” fails to interact with these criticisms of Griaule. Simply put, that isn’t how scholarship is done.

Van Beek continues:

All these discussions, however, were based on secondary sources. It was astonishing how little genuine fieldwork had been done after Griaule’s untimely death in 1956. The publication of Le Renard pale was clearly the outcome of his own work, finished by Germaine Dieterlen. She was still publishing, wholly within his tradition. The same holds for the only other major publication based on field data, the work of Genevieve Calame-Griaule, his daughter. She published a major study on Dogon language cum culture, in which she combined her father’s approach with the results of her own linguistic research. . . . The problem started with what is still the best known publication of Griaule, his small book describing his talks with a blind Dogon elder Ogotemmelli, under the title Dieu d’eau (Griaule 1948) (=DE above), translated in English under its French subtitle: Conversations with Ogotemmelli. . . . The book was a tremendous success and was translated into over twenty languages. (p. 49)

Griaule’s ethnography proved to be incoherent. Griaule’s later publications, which incidentally never could match his first success nor receive the wide circulation and renown of Ogotemmelli, depicted yet another Dogon culture. The posthumously published Le Renard pale (Griaule/Dieterlen 1956) and the articles leading up to it (Griaule 1954, Griaule/Dieterlen 1950) came up with even “deeper” myths, systems of classification, and a totally different creation story, at least with a totally different construction of the myth. These two sets of creation myths, of 1948 and 1956, are totally incon- sistent with each other … (p. 50)

Renard pale (= RP above) picked up one major following, somewhat to the embarrassment of Dieterlen. One of its spectacular “findings” had to do with astronomy. The Dogon ritual calendar allegedly was dominat- ed by a star system, that of Sirius, the main star in the constellation of Canis Major. The message of the book was that Sirius had a small white dwarf companion, Sirius B, whose revolving time punctuated the long-term rhythm of Dogon ritual life, such as the famous sigi cycle. An even smaller companion (the presumed Sirius C) then circled Sirius B. The notion of Sirius as a double star is an astronomical fact (though Sirius C is not known and has never been observed). But then, how did the Dogon know this? The naked eye cannot detect the white dwarf. The most extended treatment of this problem was given by Robert Temple in a book that has long haunted popular astronomy, The Sirius Mystery, published in 1976, (reprinted in 1999). Temple took the Dogon data as unvarnished truth and questioned how this knowledge arrived at the Bandiagara cliff. He found the answers in Egypt, and thus became a kind of trailblazer for a whole generation of authors who were even less restrained.  For those convinced of extra-terrestrial visits to the planet Earth, an idea very much in vogue during the late seventies … “Cosmonautologists” like von Diniken [sic], Guerrier (1975) and many others of their ilk had a field day with this material and the Dogon enigma quickly became established as one of the pillars in their empir- ical grounding of the “flying saucer vision” and extraterrestrial inter- pretations of the pyramids. In their reasoning the implications of the Dogon “facts” were clear: there was no way the Dogon without any astronomical instruments could know these exotic facts. Definitely this implied that they must have been taught these astronomical lessons by extraterrestrials. Thus, the Dogon notion of Sirius B (C was conve- niently forgotten) came on a par with the riddles of the Gizeh pyra- mids, the Nazca lines and Stonehenge. (pp. 50-51)

The article has a good deal else. I especially like the part where, after years spent becoming accepted by the Dogon, he began to carefully expose them to the ideas that Griaule had “learned” from Ogotemmelli, only to have his Dogon friends burst out laughing! One of the major services is van Beek’s lengthy descriptions (with illustrations) of how Griaule came to create the myths of the Dogon himself (which were uncritically absorbed by Temple and passed on to the populace in his book). Basically, there was a good amount of cultural mis-communication. Van Beek relates several anecdotes you can read for yourself, but his own epiphany in this regard is worth quoting here:

Recently, in her excellent study of Dogon masks, Anne Doquet has zoomed in on one aspect I rather neglected, i.e. the conversations with Ogotemmelli themselves, and the fieldwork genesis of the first “Griaulian myths” (Doquet 1999:90-91). Analyzing Griaule’s field notes in detail from microfiches, she noticed the two-fold influence Griaule had exerted on the material he collected with the old man. This period, from 20 October 1946 to 2 December 1946, marked his famous conversations. The field notes are a haphazard collection of ref- erences to Dogon symbols and pieces of mythology, a veritable bricolage of odds and ends, without coherence or internal consistency. However, the book gives an account of a series of systematic revela- tions, each startling myth and intricate symbol tying in nicely with the great revelations of the former day, and logically leading to the revela- tions yet to come. Recently, in her excellent study of Dogon masks, Anne Doquet has zoomed in on one aspect I rather neglected, i.e. the conversations with Ogotemmelli themselves, and the fieldwork genesis of the first “Griaulian myths” (Doquet 1999:90-91). Analyzing Griaule’s field notes in detail from microfiches, she noticed the two-fold influence Griaule had exerted on the material he collected with the old man. This period, from 20 October 1946 to 2 December 1946, marked his famous conversations. The field notes are a haphazard collection of ref- erences to Dogon symbols and pieces of mythology, a veritable brico- lage of odds and ends, without coherence or internal consistency. However, the book gives an account of a series of systematic revela- tions, each startling myth and intricate symbol tying in nicely with the great revelations of the former day, and logically leading to the revela- tions yet to come. (p. 59)

Van Beek’s account of how his 1991 critique of Griaule and his co-author Dieterlen was received — by Dieterlen herself — is also of interest:

Before submitting it to the editor, I decided to give Dieterlen a chance at first reaction. She read English only with difficulty, as I knew, so I translated the article into French, sent her a copy, and made an appointment. When I arrived at her apartment in Paris, she received me as gracefully as ever. She had been expecting a publication for some time, and appreciated my effort to give her the chance at a first reaction and my effort at making a (passable) French version. She had also admired the French version of the Time-Life book (Pern/Alexander/van Beek 1982) I had sent her some time before. In that publication I had avoided the question of Griaulian validity, as a book for the general public should not be burdened with a detailed academic debate. I braced myself for a long critique, but she had just one question: “Pourqois le publier?” Only that, why publish? She had no answer to my arguments, in fact during our two-hour conversation that followed she never ventured into the content of the article at all, but just pleaded not to publish it. It was, evidently, also the most difficult question to answer, and one I had been reflecting on very long. I answered, truth- fully I think, that publishing is the very soul of science, and that debate is the way to proceed in getting closer to the truth. She had no comments on that, but instead started reminiscing on the past. (pp. 62-63; emphasis mine – MSH)

Think about that. The only other person alive who could rebut van Beek’s criticisms of the Dogon “knowledge” had nothing to say in rebuttal, even in private. All she wanted was for the criticisms not to be published.

How telling.

151 thoughts on “The Sirius Mystery: You Don’t Need Columbo For This One

  1. The reality is Dr Heiser, your theories and those of the Ancient Alien believers fall into the same category…opinion not fact

    You are an admitted skeptic, so you begin from a place of bias, and no matter how much you deny it, that bias removes your credibility. Your view is none of the evidence can point to Ancient Aliens because there are no such things as Ancient Aliens…that is Pseudoskepticism.

    You are also Jewish, and as a Jew, your faith guides you to many of your “conclusions”. You are in a position where you are forming your own opinions to fit your specific lifestyle of skeptic/Jew

    If you can come online and claim you and that idiot Chris Smith have solved all the riddles in history, you are an insane skeptic/Jew

    Chris claimed in his “Movie”, that building many of the structures and monuments were, “easily done with simple tools”. You both lost all credibility there when you try to “debunk” things not do so logically.

    Building structures and monuments so large and so precise before the invention of the wheel, and you both have the nerve to make claims as to know what these people were doing, is beyond arrogant

    Truth is, you and the Ancient Alien Believers are both WRONG in your “assumptions”. You both twist all the supporting evidence to fit your arguments, yet you both do not know anything for sure

    I respect what the Mayans did with their Calendar that is more accurate than any Calendar since. They studied the stars and found astronomical events that occur every 25,800 years, they detected the Earth’s wobble 1000’s of years before modern US astronomers in the late 1800’s. The Aztecs who followed carried on similar traditions all studying the universe with the NAKED EYE ONLY!

    If it were found that in the vastness of space and time life forms from other worlds made contact with the Mayans, it would seem reasonable considering how old the universe is and how much further advanced older civilazations would be…just imagine what we know now as humans, opposed to what we will know in 10,000 years from now. Things you deem as impossible now as a skeptic, will become reality for your Jewish/skeptic great, great, great, great, grandchildren

    Dont be so cocky and make claims as fact when they are only theories. You will sound like an Ancient Alien Believer…just not as fun

    CDC

    • it’s not opinion to say that Zecharia Sitchin’s main ideas are not present in the cuneiform texts — and then show you how to search those same texts for yourself online. It’s fact. If I was wrong, then Sitchin or someone else would have come forward when publicly asked to do so in 2001 on the Art Bell show. The crickets have chirped ever since. Sorry, but things either exist or they don’t. Same for evidence of alien visitation. That idea can only be put on the table when we know aliens in fact do exist; until then, it’s a classic illustration of circular reasoning (and illogic is also not opinion-based — an idea is either non-contradictory and coherent or it isn’t).

  2. @CDC

    That entire comment was a demonstration of biased belief. All speculation, assumptions, and an obvious bias toward Jews and skeptics. The pot calling the kettle black…?

    I’m a man of science. I have no religion. I’m not Atheist either, I find the whole religion/creator thing to be not even worth talking about. Don’t make more assumptions, I’ve studied theology and read several ancient texts. (objectively)

    I don’t say there isn’t a possibilty of aliens on other planets, but I will say you MUST have lept over all of the references to fit your belief system; that was not a data driven argument, just an ad hominem ridden post full of comfirmation biases. Apophenia? I don’t assume. Whatever fits the belief, huh?

    @If you don’t know what peer review, citations, references, footnotes, or corroboration is, please look them up. I won’t make assumptions about your education, anybody who went to college learns these things very quickly… I found no errors in that video. Exposing the pseudoscience was good, it’s a threat to the integrity of good science.

    “Things you deem as impossible now as a skeptic, will become reality for your Jewish/skeptic great, great, great, great, grandchildren”

    I had no idea psychics existed. Please look up James Randi and claim the million dollar prize, it’s been too many years, no winners.

    You demonstrate possible metacognitive overconfidence and possible super ego. I’m not insulting you, if you look up some defintions of words I’ve said (including paragraphs above of course), you might step back and take a proverbial look in the mirror. That’s the best way… Don’t judge. Simple. (look at your own possible mistakes, it’s healthy)

    Main point: where are the facts to back your assertions? I’d love some peer reviewed content stating anything on that TV series was more than just pseudo, suggestive questions (“What if we only had some proof?” VERBATIM), and speculation. Citations to credible sources? I would love to see some scientific papers. Seriously! I WOULD. I love that stuff.

  3. First of all, Hello. I have been looking around in this website for a few hours now. I have been interested in this Ancient Alien stuff for some time now. I am not familiar with History Channel’s productions, but have you heard of David Wilcock’s book “The Hidden Science of Lost Civilisations”? Have you heard of the large increasing amount of psychologists that suggest deep hypnosis on their patients, hearing stories about past life stories and stories of the pyramids and even older stories? These last two sentences I wrote just to kind of let you in on the HUGE amount of scientists and other experts in various areas that have knowledge and experience of so called “paranormal things”. You seem to have now idea whatsoever of the pineal gland or its properties, or the possible properties of electromagnetics. (If one can travel out of body, why not the Sirious starsystems?)
    If you are familiar with Carl Sagan, you should also be aware of the massive amounts of radiation, waves and particles our planet receives from space. Have you considered the possibility that maybe our planet receives different types of energy at different cycles?
    The logical mind always need something logical to show anything, hince evidence is needed. I suspect that your brain is mostly left brained activated. Wether it is or not, how it behaves is not the reason for why you are like you are, but it behaves like it does because you are who you are, its mirroring or expressing it, in a way that there is possibility to measure the acitivity or your energy in a 3d reality.

    Perhaps you disregard me as a new age hippie, or something like it. I have been left brained for most of my life, and I would say most people are. But understand that there are always endless ways of looking at anything, and none of them are wrong, this reality works in a way that we ourselves create it. Feeling and emotion is a the key to master your own reality. Perhaps you will find this out soon.

    So far as your debunking is concerned, it´s not really debunking. You are attacking a few, weak theories. There are much stronger thoeries and there is a bigger picture. Work WITH them instead of against them.

    I have no PhD either. Thank lord for that, I wouldn’t want my mind to be even more manipulated by the institutions of this world.

    Basically you are saying that, we evolved our reptilian brain, to then be able to evolve our mammal brain, in which together with the reptilian brain we could evolve our very advanced third layer brain, just so we can forget all about or evolution and stick to the lower two brains?
    Im sorry but I have to say this, You are helplessly stuck in a belief that what you are aware of is all that you are aware of. If you would just let go of your ego and perhaps use various types of methods to syncronize your brain hemispheres you would see that your subconsious is always there, in firsthand. what you say and do in your waking state, is always a result of your subconsious.

    However, have you heard of the nucleas physicist Thomas Campbell? He works for NASA and has written a book, My Big TOE (My big picture theory of everything), there is an online free edition of this book (about 850 pages).
    I also recommend his Reality 101 workshop video series on Youtube. ESPECIALLY for left brained debunkers like you, who appreciate western type of logical mind thinking.

    Other authors that I think would blow your mind all way to the sirious star systems of you would just give them the chance:
    Robert Monroe
    Raymond Moody
    Brian L Weiss

    • I’m not familiar with Wilcock or the other names, except for Raymond Moody, who would have nothing to contribute with respect to the material on this blog (if it’s the same Raymond Moody who does NDE research).

  4. I would also like to point out, that knowing is NOT intellectual copying, which most of school and educations consists of. Know yourself, remember who you are, stabilize your vibrations, receive the information and update your DNA. Either that or don´t do any of it. Go find guys like David Icke and laugh at his experiences. Pat you ego, maybe you will get a boner (sorry, but I find these types of comments funny, though realistic)
    As said, Carl Sagan talked about particles penetrating our bodies from space. particles is information, right? What if, in the right frequency range you can really feel these different types of data?

    Do you actually really believe that all, ALL the growing people around the world, talking about vibrations and such, do it just to try to shut you up or you know because they have flaws in their theories?. After having an Out of body experience, I can tell you that even this reality is not as real as the vibrations. Lol

    You share Carl Sagans opinion of the needed proof of extra terrestrials, but you are not near as open minded as he was.

    Also, if you really need proof of ET´s, I don’t think it will ever get closer than this today: search for the documentary The Silent Revolution of Truth
    It features Billy Meier, I ASSUME you have heard of this guy and his picture-, video- and sound-recordings?

    • I fail to see how Sagan’s comments about particles has anything to do with the Temple’s failure to produce real evidence about Dogon “advanced knowledge.” Billy Meier is a fraud (his wife isn’t the only one who says he faked pictures, either).

  5. @ HigherLearning

    “people don’t want facts… They want fiction.”

    of course, the intellect can never bring anything new to this world. Only by bringing the so called abstract to become to reality can we feel true pleasure

  6. Beware of possible cognitive dissonace when nothing comes to fruition with Billy Meiers… (Anybody can recreate those photos; I know a lot about cameras, don’t try the camera angle, it’s futile)

    May you be blessed with love and all of that good stuff from the channelers of the Pleiadians, where no planets exist. Whatever fits the belief! Those channelers need to visit James Randi (Google his million dollar prize).
    Reach for the sky, but the sky isn’t the limit. We are.

    Beware of people exploiting human’s thirst for knowledge/belief in such things for fame and money… Lots of glorious plagues!

  7. @Skorum

    Beware of David icke, I’ve caught him in many lies…
    He loves to mix conspiracy theories with rubbish and says he wants love and light. That should ring bells in your brain right there.

    From a psychological/critical thinking standpoint, he’s out for fame/money or delusional (I’m betting on out for fame and money. Watch critical thinking at work..). I’ve watched a few of his long videos, quite the scenario, trying to make people anti-government and shizophrenic it seems… NOT productive, I don’t see how anybody who claims they think logically can take his words with nothing more than a grain of salt, but as you pointed out when you quoted me… (I’ll let you figure that out when you go read it, it may be revealing)

    Think for yourself, don’t let people’s ideas influence your own. By making the statements you made, you are unaware that you are contradicting yourself.

    Don’t drink David Icke’s Kool Aid (pun), you’ll see I’m right about him, remember I warned you. PLEASE REMEMBER! It will show you how good an education is. His newest claim is 2016, people like him always change dates, but hey, he may like the spotlight, huh? (HINT!)
    Again, refrain from cognitive dissonance when Icke’s prophecies also fail (like Billy Meiers, although that’s more like Scientology now). He make make new dates, they always do…. Sociology stuff.

    I have a high education, it doesn’t mean I’m not open minded. That’s another logical fallacy and comfirmation bias people make all the time. It makes absolutely no sense… Very bad assumptions.

    I dare you to read ‘When Prophecy Fails’. Have a good day.

  8. To Men who tell the truth with evidence in hand ,I have been happily enlightened by your awsome teaching , I now look with new eyes ,and I am not afrraid of the dark anymore. Question everything ,thank you ,Dont stop ,We need this.

  9. I really do understand your scepticism in David Icke and in me, and you should be sceptical.
    I would never ever want to believe something without knowing truth in it. Sometimes I do find bias in my way of thinking, and I am aware of there being more, and so should you.
    I am not saying at all, that every word he says is true. I saw him in Stockholm in Sweden last year, on a one day lecture or what you wanna call it.
    There was books for sale and so on, I remember thinking why would he wanna make any money out of this. I reasoned that perhaps although he seems to have a lot of experiences he still has a lot of ego in him. I still think so. I also remember he said, he thinks the moon is hollow. I also think that he should very well be allowed to say such things. We all assume the moon isn’t hollow because that’s what we have been taught. Why do we always want to kill the guys that think otherwise? I can tell you why and that is because you think you have a lot invested in this ride. Money, status, or whatever. You want it to stay real, and David Icke is comprimising this.
    To me, the idea of David Icke represents thinking for yourself, finding out your own truth, without ever letting anyone else telling you otherwise. After all, how could you ever find truth in anything if you just have copied the information?
    You say that I make contradictions, perhaps, but understand my intent, and not just the words.
    I do not doubt the vibrations, because I have experienced them myself.
    I have gone out of body, and I have no doubt in my mind that there exists dimensions with beings, evil or good, whatever you wanna call them.

    If every single person interested in science or pseudoscience would watch Thomas Campbells videos or read his books he or she would understand the small picture that has been given to us. Would a character in the game world of warcraft understand the bits of data it consists of? That is if we would assume the characted had awareness of itself and its surroundings.

    Understand that your thoughts of David Icke are assumptions. So are mine. I just don’t understand why everone always hates these types of characters. They make money in a way they burn for? They do something they think help, and they receive money in doing so. Or are you saying that he is aware of being a fraud? I would say that any human, whatever they are doing, either they are murderers or rapists, they always do the best they can compared to what they got, you see?

    The worlds view of psychology derives mostly from one guy, Freud, and he was a coke addict and in my view, not much of a guy to listen to at all. Mostly he messes peoples minds up by giving them a small picture view of what we humans are. i mean come on, what do we even know? We dont even really know what atoms exists of, we just have models that seem to fit depending on what we want to know.

    I would like you to go deeper, what lies have you caught? Why are conspiracy theories always assumed to not be true?
    About Billy Meier, I think you would like to watch an interview with one of Meier´s sons, he left the FIGU organisation and claims billy hit him and his mother. But, just listen to him what he has to say about the pleidiadians.

    IF there does exist pleaidians, I would say that the MAIN reason why this whole thing with Billy went like it did, is because they would like us to think for ourselves.

    I have been raised in a religious environment, it´s like a sect. But I got out of it. So I was born to this world taught to believe in a lot of stuff. I question everything nowadays. But some truths I have found out. Like the vibrations and that time and space are constructs and that consciousness really is are there is.
    Please, listen to me, I think you won´t because if you would have listened to me, you would already have gone to search for clues in these guys and then compared the data with your own experiences:
    Robert Monroe
    Raymond Moody
    Brian L Weiss

  10. Well, yes it is the same character. I brought him up to this subject because he was the first one (maybe not the first one, but certainly the most recognized) to make some nice research of the NDE phenomenon, I think it DOES have something to do with this blog, becuase the research makes us question our belief of what we are.
    I am starting to realize that having opinions in this subject and posting in sites like this will take a great deal of time and effort. I don´t know if I am capable of discussing these matters in your version of truth. (I have a feeling this last sentence will get the hungry wolf satisfied)

    • I don’t see any relation to this. You’d have to go off a very high and deep end via the consciousness trajectory for it. I’m interested in NDE research generally (read von Lommel’s lengthy book on it, as well as the Spiritual Brain, last year).

  11. It’s quite the scenario. On Youtube it seems he’s a sensation to many, the like/dislikes are disturbing on his videos, example: ‘The Moon is not real’. (ARE YOU JOKING?!)
    A lot of people ignore the obvious lack of scientific knowledge or 2D thinking/delusions… Along with his proposterous claims of a gallactic alignment, witch was conveniently changed to 2016 instead of his supposed ‘black hole vibrations’ (absurd!). An alignment happens EVERY year! Stuff these kind of people leave out, convenient, again!

    Most people assume integrity of videos and content by their rating… Consesus psychology; Mob mentality; why think indepentently when it SEEMS to have been done for you (mental laziness)… All objectivity out the window. Most follow what seems like the ‘right’ answer, sort of like tigers following the alpha; let’s put out a human example, assuming the child with the best grades in school is correct all the time, that’s not good.

    These things should be taught at an early age. Thinking objectively is critical. My son will know these simple things… Parents need to be aware. (in an ideal world, I’m actually more of a realist! LOL)

  12. If you can’t find David Icke’s lies, I already stated a FEW…
    He suffers from some sort of psychosis/psychoses or is just fooling the naive with his supposed vibrations, it’s like a new religion.
    That is a logical assessment…
    Another easy example, most ancients DID NOT worship snakes. Sorry David, but some people studied history and theology! There has been Animism from the start, no ‘serpent worshipping’ in so many places, they were often seen as part of reincarnation, due to the shedding of their skin, age, wisdom, and sacred. NOT worshipped as he states. A lot of older civizations worshipped MANY dieties. From ALL types of animals to celestial objects/clusters to rivers to plants (EGYPTIAN creation mythology example) to you name it! Humans are born believers and born followers… We must be careful.

    Mike is right, we’re going off topic here, I wanted to point out the obvious, I’ve been watching a lot of this deception in action. Sorry Mike, feel free to correct me if I missed something, I’m half asleep:) I used to be loaded with that type of knowledge, it fades as we stray into other fields…

    PLEASE: look up ad populum fallacy, may it help your Youtube browsing. My intentions are good. Always. I like to learn too, but I won’t listen to lies and ignore them (cognitive dissonance at work) because Icke speaks of love and light, bla bla bla, consciousness. Nobody fully understands consciousness… Get a few good neuroscience books. Obviously Icke doesn’t either! No raise in consciousness will happen like he says, it’s ABSURD! He’s skating on people’s lack of education and love for conspiracy theories mixed with love/light, WHOA… Need I say more?

    As for Billy’s son, I’ve watched a few of his videos. His family has issues just like most. Unfortunately for him, he’s been dragged into his father’s schemes, so why would I be inclined to believe him? That makes NO sense.

    I’ll conclude he’s out for fame and money(both of them), perhaps something more sinister…? Hmmm… Wobbly legs; and if you studied you’d see why educated people don’t usually debate such people. It sometimes just adds to their spotlight/fame… Just what they want. Only places who support such things ‘interview’. I’d like to see some objectivity…

    Added note: I meditate daily. I excersize daily. I may clear my mind before martial arts training and coaching, but I don’t listen to rantings of madmen. It’s his ideas, not mine, like a plague the things are, internet memes.

    That’s it on those topics. I’m not spamming Mike’s blog. Please hear me out, as i will look into your books and claims as well. You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours:)

    –Tom

  13. I still want to make this connection, because of this Dogon mystery.
    If you we don´t approach these types of matters from a deep end, maybe we won’t get all the data, or miss important data. Such as the pineal gland thing, where you perhaps can experience traveling to other star systems.
    Anyways David Wilcock should be of great importance to you, his book certainly has a lot to do with this blog.

  14. About this David Icke moon thing, I haven’t thought much about it since he talked about it last year. But I remember he said he found others have thought about and wrote books about it, the moob being hollow. According to rumors I have stored in my memory, (read or heard about it, perhaps total B.S.) all the craters go only to the same depth, even tough they are of different width. And something about the moon ringing like a bell when NASA sent explosives to measure water samples. I am not a physicist, there are certainly reasons for these rumors. And what do we know of gravity vs electro magnetics? Which is more powerful? Is the moon weirdly close to our planet if compared to other moons to other planets? That fact that the moon precisely covers the sun at some moments is fascinating. It is at the perfect distance. How come?
    Anyways, David is a friend to this african shaman guy, Credo Mutwa, who says that in his culture they have stories of the moon being an eggshell brought here by two brothers of some sort. Of course this strengthened David´s theory, or beginning of theory? Hypothesis?
    More than this I don’t really know about the subject.

  15. Ok, I will have a few last opinions of my own =)
    Much of what David points out does seem to be true, about a global elite.
    Some kind of huge over-time cover-up about ancient information does seem to have taken place, think of the Christians “spreading” their faith by travelling to various old cultures burning and removing their data. What happened to the great library in Alexandria? Even if it is a conspiracy or not, there is a system with various consequences that have been spread through most parts of the world.
    So why do we disregard everything he has to say, claiming he is a madman, maybe because he claimed that he is the son of god or that something is going to happen in 2016?

    I am sorry for coming off at a mad angle in this blog, I do appreciate scepticism, especially of shows from mainstream channels like History Channel.

    You say that nobody fully understands consciousness, I agree with you. But Thomas Campbell has 20-30 years of experience and gathering of data, in a scientific way. But looking at ways from a small picture view is not the right way.
    I have some interest in neuroscience, but I am more intersted in if perhaps the thought is what is responsible for the activity, or if there is research of this kind instead.

    As to the Billy Meier thing, I have gone through other debunking sites, I just don’t find all the proof I need of any of the two sides. The debunkers just don’t make enough sence, I mean the guy has one arm. He is a farmer, and even if he wouldn’t have had any contant physically or mentally he is a fascinating character. Perhaps the situation is neither black or white, but kind of greyish? There isn’t enough data to make all conclusions.

    As to this blog, I wonder if any of you has seen these documentaries:
    The revelation of the pyramids
    The pyramid code
    Magical Egypt

    • the subject and study of consciousness has nothing to do with proving extraterrestrial life. That’s what the Sirius post was about. I don’t have a blog dealing with consciousness, though I am interested in that subject, and have been interviewed about it (see Skeptiko). I’m just not pursuing that subject on this blog.

  16. You are certainly debunking Robert Temple’s theory regarding the ancient astronaut but failed to criticize the current theories regarding “Black Hole”, “Dark Matter”, “Dark Energy” as propagated by mainstream science now.

    • You don’t “fail” at things you didn’t attempt. If that was coherent, then I’ve also failed in my bid for the presidency and a career in the NFL.

      I’m not a physicist, and these subjects aren’t what this blog is about.

  17. WOW…
    I only see one person making valid and obvious points in this blog besides Mike.
    Good Job mike. Thank you for your efforts, pseudo junk is not an easy thing to argue against. It’s very touchy and can backfire. I’m sure you know. I watched that video from Chris White, excellent viewing pleasure. I hate that show… Speculation and false dilemmas, fallacies everywhere not to mention: the selling of books! (and of course TV show makes a lot of money, and it feeds the other baseles baloney floating around.

    You seem like a very intelligent person Alwayslearning. Keep up the good work. I can tell you’re dumbing down a lot of what you say, I visited that link, you are obviously above my paygrade by your videos and I’ve seen you talking in your feed. You use words I’ve never heard of, and I looked a few up, it made perfect sense! Your name is fitting, It was fun watching you shoot people’s naivety and assertions like you had homing missiles. I subscribed.

    When will the believers of nonsense such as this realize that it’s a business? COME ON! Wake up people.
    Dark matter, etc, what a joke! That has no base in this blog and there are some things we don’t understand yet. The best tool to find truth in the universe: Science(s). Period.
    Find another way and win a Nobel prize.
    Some of these posts are proposterously ignorant and arrogant, I mean no offense, it’s just the truth. “I have no education but I’m just as smart”, “I don’t want to be educated by the school systems, I’m scared they will indoctrinate me”… (NOT verbatim, but does it matter?)

    Unreal, welcome to Earth.

    Again, thank you Mike, I’ve been trying to show my friend the junk, and this is very helpful. I even used a few videos from Alwayslearning, he has references for everything he says, very good information sections, not the best graphics, lol:)

  18. I was really hoping for some insight into these most fascinating subject. I ordered your translations, and I have to say, I do not feel cheated, but you have shed absolutely zero light on the topic. My instinct and study tell me you are utterly wrong about the Dogon and their knowledge. Why are you so afraid that they might be in possession of superior understanding? There are obviously vast connections and interrelationships of ancient knowledge that without a doubt, may have been superior to even our “scientific knowledge” today. What the Dogon know is not random or accidental, it REAL KNOWLEDGE. Its just isn’t from the sources we think it should be from. how incredibly unimaginative to dismiss that.

    • The Anunnaki translations have nothing to do with the Dogon. Why would you ever think it did? (Maybe the answer is you’ve been reading Sitchin?) The Anunnaki translations are about the the tablets say about the Anunnaki — the real data, not fairy tales told by Sitchin. And the Anunnaki (in the actual Sumerian material) have ZERO to do with Sirius, or the Dogon.

  19. Well, I am not a “believer” in either camp, I do know that the website’s author comes off as biased, as do most so-called scientists. I have worked towards an advanced degree in neurolinguistics and it is in that study in which I found that the world is pretty much an illusion created by our inability to deal with the facts of the world around us; Walter Lippmann’s book, “Public Opinion,” illustrates, in part, why people create a different view of reality than what the facts present.

    All “facts” are, in reality truths, due to what we are: human; we interpret facts based on our paradigm; in fact, there is no such thing as an independent/unbiased observer .

    The Ancient Astronaut theory is interesting & entertaining and brings up some interesting facts about so-called history. I know that they, too, come from a biased position and so I must suspect their conclusions.

    People like Icke take advantage of people to make money & advance an agenda (theirs or someone else’s is immaterial); in that camp I throw in the likes of Alex Jones, Art “B.S.” Bell, Thomas Edison, and more.

    I know most “scientists” take exception to adding Thomas Edison, but that guy was a true piece of work. He took credit for his underlings’ work and then, when something came along that was better, he worked his ass off to create propaganda against the competitor (i.e., Nikola Tesla & alternating current) in order to keep sales up.

    Michael Cremo & Richard Thompson have done a fantastic job in demonstrating that the archeological/anthropological field have their share of problems; and yet, they are often the most arrogant, presumptuous individuals I have ever met.

    Perhaps, the world is not so nice & neat, black & white as the mainstream scientists would have us think; and, perhaps, the ancient astronaut theorists are completely missing the boat on their logical jumps; but, in the end, who really cares? If idiots want to throw money away at poor investments, they will, and nothing I can say or do will ever convince them otherwise; the ignorant have to decide not to be so any longer for themselves.

    Thank you for the site & for allowing me to post comments.

  20. All of this put a smile on my face and made my head hurt at the same time… I wish aliens would show themselves, either from within their underground/underwater base or their elusive planet/flying machines, or the messiah would return so my little mind could finally get some rest. In the mean time I have to look for signs of the antichrist, wait for nuclear attack, comet, meteor, earthquake, super volcano, solar flare etc, FEMA camp activation…oh what a list. If only I had time to balance the lower functioning sides of my brain and be able to give myself an out of body experience, I may finally get answers to whether big foot or Loch Nessy survived the previous calamity 3600 years ago and possibly sleep. I guess I will have to go back to prepping my apocalypse bunker and packing/upgrading/repacking my bug out bag and running my family through various survival scenarios until I can finally find the key to the bible code or learn to translate ancient Hebrew and Sumerian text and gain access to all artifacts and draw my own biased, half educated, personal paradigm driven conclusions. First I will have to produce a tv show or write a book to fund all of this. It will be something along the lines of “how to survive when the alien antichrist messiah returns from his/her underground heaven from under the ocean of his lost planet in a spaceship, speaking Sumerian Hebrew that causes nuclear meteors to fall to earth triggering solar flares, volcanoes, and earthquakes and you find yourself in a FEMA camp while having an out of body experience” based upon my translation of all the above mentioned contributors and Google search engine. I may just quit my day job of engineering in building cellular/wireless infrastructure for large public venues.

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