Romans 5:12 – What it Says and What it Doesn’t Say (Part 1)
Posted By MSH on April 6, 2009
Okay, I can’t contain myself any longer. Along with the canon posts, which I’ll continue, I have to start in on Romans 5:12. This verse is on my short list of most abused and misunderstood texts in the Bible. I’m going to start with an egregious abuse of it, and then move to problems traditional interpretations of it create for biblical theology, whether mainline denominations realize it or not (frankly, the views are so entrenched by centuries of repetition that Christian theologians have simply invented answers to the problems that also cannot be legitimized in the text). Romans 5:12 is an excellent example of whether we are going to get our theology from the text or import it into the text.
Let’s start with the verse (in a couple English versions and in Greek):
(ESV): Therefore, just as ?sin came into the world through one man, and ?death through sin, and ?so death spread to all men because ?all sinned.
(NIV): Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.
(NRSV): Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned.
(NKJV): Therefore, just as ??through one man sin entered the world, and ??death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.
(NASB): Therefore, just as through ??one man sin entered into the world, and ??death through sin, and ??so death spread to all men, because all sinned.
Greek (NA27):
Now for the abuse. Romans 5:12 is commonly used by strict creationists (24-hour day, six solar days for creation) to argue that there can be no fossils before the fall. Here’s a representative quotation with my highlighting:
According to Genesis, God created a picture of perfection. Death didn’t come on the scene until man sinned. ?Genesis 3:15? and ?Romans 5:12? explain how death came after man sinned. ?I Corinthians 15? declares sin is rebellion against God and that it results in death. Physical death came as an effect of sin. Before sin, there was no death-not even in the animal world according to Genesis. Both man and animal were vegetarians. 1
Anyone see a problem in the plain text of Romans 5:12? How about “through one MAN…” and “dead spread to all MEN.” The text says absolutely nothing about animals – zero. Whatever happened at the Fall resulted in a transition from (apparent) immortality to mortality for humankind. Animal life has to be read into the text for the purpose of promoting a specific view of the fossil record. Nothing is said of any other life than humankind, so we should not infer anything about it. The verse cannot be used to justify the idea that animal life (and of course plant life) could not and did not die before the Fall. To argue anything in that regard from this verse is to insert it into the verse.
- Dennis Gordon Lindsay, Foundations for Creationism (Dallas: Christ for the Nations, 1998, c1990). ↩
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Mike,
I agree with you that this verse cannot be used for their presuppositions. However, wouldn’t you agree that there was not any death before sin? The Bible does attest to the fall of man affecting all of creation…that is why Paul said that the whole creation is groaning awaiting for its redemption from the effects of sin.
Grace be with you,
Chris
@cwmyers007: I would say/agree that the verse says there was no HUMAN death before the fall.
[...] to get back to Romans 5:12. My first complaint about the misuse of this passage concerned how creationists (of the literal, 24 hr. day variety) [...]
I’m on your side that this verse specifically states death spread to all MEN not animals. But, can you help me refute what I believe it is they see in the verse? When I was a creationist of the 24 hr variety (years ago) I used to read it thus: “Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, AND DEATH THROUGH SIN (no italics, sorry), and so death spread to all men..which led me to believe that until the sin occurred (timetable wise) death had not ‘come into the world’. So how do you tell a creationist death may have existed before the sin of adam, if the plain text seems to correlate it’s entrance (before specifying it was a death only for man) with the sin? That is maybe there was no death and the verse only highlights human death because a) it is human death Paul is interested in addressing and b) animal death would’ve been naturally inferred by the audience’s mind and, therefore, not necessary to explain? Thanks.
I have to summarize, to clarify sorry: In other words, does the verse mean to say a specific kind of death came through sin, THE death that spread to all men or does it say all death came and it ALSO spread to men (implying no death before the fall). What does the grammar imply? Because the English translation has a comma break at the part that says: ‘and death through sin”. Is this significant…is it meant to be viewed as a chronological pause (it came first…Then death spread to men)? (which would support no death pre-fall, again). Thanks.
@Jonnathan Molina: My answer would be to let the subsequent phrase interpret the previous phrase: “and so death passed to all men” defines death coming through sin — the only focus ever put in the text is humanity. If we want to know what was on Paul’s mind, we ought to let him tell us – and the only object of death he mentions is humanity. Now, we can put everything else in the verse, but that’s the point – we’re putting it there. At the very least there had to be plant death for humans to eat something (and, frankly, for plants to reproduce). And how do we define animals? Do microscopic ones count? Do animals that exist and need dead matter to reproduce count? I could on a while here, knowing that the “opponent” would say “well, that’s the way everything reproduced after the fall.” Thank you for ANOTHER addition to the text. I don’t want to be annoying to those who hold this view, but I only really care about what’s in the text, not what might make sense if it were in the text.
Ah, of course it is true; the point is that it’s being put there as you say. The whole point of plant death (microscopic death I hadn’t thought of) is one that I always used to refute too; good to hear it from someone else. I always said the seed has to die, the flower, and (in the end) the fruit so death had to be there (plus the fact that for the threat to make sense “if you eat you’ll die” Adam had to have some kind of understanding of what death was). Thank you!
I was wondering what verses we use to say plants have life or that plants die. I see plants grow I see plants wither. I don’t see where they live or die. I don’t see where they have the breath of life in them like man, birds, animals.
I’m not following the point of the question.
Another thought, God creates Adam. Gives him a language and speech that he and Eve can understand and speak with each other and God but they can’t know what the word death means unless they see it. That does not make sense to me. So how did they know what Satan meant when he said if you eat of the tree you will be like God? Did they see some animals eat the tree and become like God?
I can’t follow this one either since you set up a false assumption (which you identify as false — so why bring it up)? I just don’t know what you’re asking here. The content of the question asks me to speculate on your speculation (nothing you describe is in the text, so it isn’t very useful to ask me if those things happened).
Thanks Mike for the answer back.
First off let me say I follow what you are saying about the text in Romans 5:12 and I agree with you.
The text does not say anything about death in the animal world, why they die and when they started to die. It only speaks of man’s death. Paul was speaking in a context of life and death of man in relationship to the two Adam’s. However because this text does not speak of animal’s death or plants death ( plants death I even question that they die) does not mean that the origin was at at different time or for a different reason. The text does say that either.
Yes when a Creationist says all death is explained by this text he is wrong. Likewise for a Theoistic Evolutionist to find ground for their view in the Rom. 5:12 text is also wrong.
I guess I should of made myself more clear. I was reacting to the logic statements that was made about why there had to be death in the animal kingdom before the fall of man to show man what death was.
In short if you want to limit one group to only what the text in Rom 5:12 says the other side has to be limited also.
the origin of what (last sentence, first paragraph)? I’m still not following what you’re targeting.
Thanks again Mike for answering and thanks for your patience with me. Boy it sure would be simpler to speak face to face. The origin I was speaking of is when and why there is death and corruption in the plant and animal kingdoms. Romans 5:12 tells us of the origin of man’s death, that is all. I believe that Romans 8:18-25 speaks of the source of the corruption in others, that source being God subjected them to it. Ro 8:18-25
Future Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
ESV
This passage does not tell us when this subjection took place however it does say when it will end.
I arrive at when that time of subjection is by other passages like Ge 1:24-31
24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
ESV
If you compare Romans 8 and Gen 1, there are 2 different pictures of what the creation looks like. One by God’s own words was very good when he had finished making it. The other is groaning in corruption.
I know the passage does not say directly that God cursed the animals and plants and this was the beginning of death and corruption in those kingdoms when Adam fell but the following passage come pretty close and to me it is a good inference. Ge 3:17-4:1
17 And to Adam he said,
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”
20 The man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. 21 And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.
22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.
ESV