Where Did the NT Writers Get the Idea of Jesus as Co-Creator?
Posted By MSH on December 11, 2009
Last Sunday I gave a talk at church on Jesus as co-creator. Specifically, the discussion focused on the embodied “Word” idea and “Wisdom” in the Old Testament. Here it is:
Michael Heiser December 6, 2009 from Grace Church Bellingham on Vimeo.
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24 Responses to “Where Did the NT Writers Get the Idea of Jesus as Co-Creator?”
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This is awesome! It’s nice to see the professor in his element. I do pray we see more of these as they become available; great presentation.
@Jonnathan Molina: The next two Sunday nights (only two more of these in the series) are: (1) Why did Jews find the worship Jesus as God acceptable in their monotheistic framework? It will be an overview of the “two powers / two Yahwehs” doctrine in the OT; and (2) Did Matthew Misinterpret Isaiah 7:14?
The series is focused on Jesus and the OT.
Hi Michael,
A long time reader of your material here….though I’ve never commented or got in touch with you.
Firstly, I want to thank you for sharing so freely what you have been taught by the Holy Spirit. There are those of us who are not in a position to pay and so it’s soo deeply appreciated that I can find some of the studies/information you’ve made available (i.e. the Divine Council, etc.).
This particular teaching is m-e-a-t-y! And YAY that you have given a talk on it – but also shared it here:)! I still haven’t totally got my head around it – but I am listening and praying the Holy Spirit will help me understand what I consider to be a mysterious Truth embedded in His Word (the Scriptures, I mean;)).
I hope you will follow up with more on this topic….
Yaweh bless and keep you brother.
Lisa
Am watching this as we now, about 20 minutes in. I laughed out loud for joy at the top of my lungs when you read Wisdom of Solomon 7:26. Wow. Echoes of Paul: “for he is the image of the invisible God”. Least I think thats where your going. Freaking amazing!
Good stuff the only other source related to this of yours is and old gravely audio on the two powers theme.
Much needed also especially at this time of year when all the detractors come out to take pot shots at the New Testament writers, saying such things as the Deity of Christ was made up hundreds of years after the He walked the Earth, With this very valuable information we can see it runs right through the Old Testament into the New !
When John explains the Word in the first chapter, now it has so much more impact and depth given the Jewishness of the thought, it must have blown those early Jewish followers away ! that is a tremendous statement and opening by John/(Holy Spirit)….Wow mind blowing
Much needed info i hope you are kept busy by this it is so valuable.
Excellent video… I look forward to more.
Do you see that Scripture ever suggests that there was a time that God was not 3/1. Not implying that the attributes of the Word and the Holy Spirit were absent – just that they were not separate before the creation of the earth.
Just wondering if that would fit into the context of Prov 8.
Thank you again.
@Lisa: thanks; I’ve really been thinking (and actually making some preparations) to do more video and podcasting.
@Jeremy: yep
@Nobunaga: thanks – more is planned. I was a bit surprised about your comment in the first sentence. I really don’t keep track or notice what’s available to people and what isn’t. I need to move into more video and podcasting (free) for this stuff.
@Dean: I don’t believe there was a time when the son or spirit was not. Your note on whether they were “present but separate” is worth consideration, though it requires a rationale for the godhead persons being “distinct but not separate” – not sure if that can be demonstrated as coherent or not.
Yeah the remarks were aimed at at the other posters to let them know there is other material out there to listen too, i suggested to you in the past that you have a section for audio and videos but i know how busy you must be.
here is the link for the audio i was talking about
The Visible and Invisible God
http://www.logos.com/media/lecture/heiser/LectureSeries-Heiser.html
i hope it doesnt detract from any upcoming video, but as i say it is very valuable information to the Church.
Just listened to the older video again it has been re-vamped and has visuals now. Excellent.
you distinguish from modalisim with the two powers but i cant help thinking the visible God seems to turn up in different forms ? i.e The Name, The Word, The Angel of the Lord and even possibly the Arm of the Lord is this modalisim within the second Power/God ?
Also would it be safe to say every time the is anthropomorphic language it is Christology ?
@Nobunaga: modalism really doesn’t work when both the visible and invisible Yahweh are simultaneously present. On your last question, I wouldn’t say “every” but I would say “most”.
I agree that is doesnt work with the visible and invisible Yahweh are present, but does the visible Yahweh choose different modes to communicate i.e angel or human and with the different titles such as “The Word” and “The Name”
just thinking out loud, i’m not disagreeing with a triune God head i’m just trying to get to grips with the different manifestations of the Visible Yahweh which i see as Christology. Perhaps the next video will explain ?
I like how casually it’s presumed Paul wrote Hebrews.
This was great – can’t wait for the next one.
Thank you professor Heiser! I have been greatly enriched from being a student your class OBST591 —also this site has been very informative. Thank you!
@Ingemar:
you’re welcome!
@Nobunaga: The next session will be on the two powers issue – an overview. I think the range of the ways Yahweh chose to be manifest to the human senses is in part a “problem” of human vocabulary.
Mike,
Thanks for responding!
This video is labelled ‘Class 2″….is there a ‘Class 1″ video here on your site? If so, I’d like to watch it and then listen to the one on this page again.
I hope you’re able, somehow, to make more video or podcast teachings available.
Yaweh bless you brother.
Lisa
Agh – just found the other video….on vimeo…..please disregard my question in my last comment!
@Lisa: The first one lacks the audio quality of the second. Number three will happen Sunday night, Lord willing.
@Nobunaga: Video number 3 will likely be on the virgin birth, not the 2 powers. I’ve had to shift the topic to get it in before Christmas.
[...] 1. Where Did the New Testament Writers Get the Idea of Jesus as Co-Creator? [...]
[...] night I watched this interesting video by Michael Heiser on “Two Powers” (see also Jesus as Co-Creator). I largely agree that Christology is rooted in various intermediary figures in Second Temple [...]