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	<title>Comments on: Biblical Anthropology, Part 7</title>
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	<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/</link>
	<description>Biblical theology, stripped bare of denominational confessions and theological systems</description>
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		<title>By: Ken Hamrick</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1737</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Hamrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1737</guid>
		<description>After reading your series, I have a few suggestions...

It seems to me that the Hebrews did understand that man is both material and immaterial, but that they did not conceive of the two as easily separable as we usually do. Nephesh and sheol are parallel in that they refer to the union of both as if one, and also refer to the strictly immaterial. Just as a soul is both body and spirit together, sheol is the place of the dead, both the pit in the ground and the spiritual abode. Abel&#039;s blood cried out to God from the ground. This seems to indicate that the Hebrews saw the union of material and immaterial as so strong that both go into the ground together--thus, even the spiritual part of sheol is seen as underground, since the spirit does not end up far from where the body delivered it. And though we might scoff at the idea of a physical location for a spiritual abode, it is true that while a man lives his spirit is located within his body. Christ made it clear that sheol&#039;s spiritual abode had two compartments, one for the righteous and one with suffering and flames. It is also clear that this was not heaven where God was said to be. Christ went to &quot;prepare a place&quot;--a place that had not yet been prepared, a place in the presence of the throne of God. It seems logical that the OT saints remained in sheol as a holding area until Christ satisfied justice though the cross.

While I agree that soul and spirit are mostly synonymous, I suggest that we should not dismiss all distinctions. The soul is most closely represented by the idea of &quot;mind,&quot; but with the understanding that in man that mind is possessed by an integral spirit. What the mind does the spirit does in much the same way that where the balloon goes the air within the balloon also goes, etc. Animals have a rudimentary soul, in that they have what we have (in a lesser capacity), including emotions, but they lack a spirit. The distinctions are usually unimportant in biblical references, since whenever one worships God in his soul he just as truly worships God in his spirit. Only when Scripture makes a distinction is there a distinction to be made. The spirit is that immaterial part of us that is most like God. It provides the everlasting nature of human existence. The body will die; the soul will live on only because of the spirit within it. While we are in these bodies, the soul is the interface between the spirit and the body in one sense, and encompasses both spirit and body in another sense. The soul, as the mind, is composed of both material and immaterial. The mind has its spiritual aspect, but it also has its physical aspect, controlling all body processes, etc. The mind can be enraptured in spiritual worship, and it can also be depressed due to chemical imbalances. When we die, the material part of the soul/mind is left behind, and the immaterial part (with the spirit within it) goes to God. 

I think it also helps to realize that the spirit has faculties that parallel the body. A disembodied spirit may move on its own, without physical feet. (Look at the unclean spirits who left the demon-possessed man and went into the swine. They had to see the swine, as well as be able to move to where they were at.) A disembodied spirit needs no 11-cis-retinal in order to see.  This also explains why we are not condemned from the moment of conception. The spirit of a child is limited in its understanding by the body. A spirit without a body may go through a wall, but a spirit within one of these corruptible bodies must use a door. Also, though a disembodied spirit can see the door, the spirit of a (living) physically blind man cannot see. The physical body limits the spirit while the spirit is within it. In the same way, the spirit of a newly conceived child must wait until the body and mind have developed to a certain point before they can reach an accountable understanding. It is absurd to suggest that a zygote understands the law written on its heart and has any conflicting thoughts regarding it. In a (physically) living human being, thoughts require synapses and brain cells, which the zygote does not yet have.

When the disciples saw Jesus on the water, they said, &quot;It is a spirit.&quot; Why didn&#039;t they say, &quot;It is a soul?&quot; Just as there were eight souls saved on the ark... To say, &quot;It is a spirit,&quot; is to mean a disembodied spirit, while soul could be either. While the spirit has an existence apart from the body, the human soul has no existence apart from the spirit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading your series, I have a few suggestions&#8230;</p>
<p>It seems to me that the Hebrews did understand that man is both material and immaterial, but that they did not conceive of the two as easily separable as we usually do. Nephesh and sheol are parallel in that they refer to the union of both as if one, and also refer to the strictly immaterial. Just as a soul is both body and spirit together, sheol is the place of the dead, both the pit in the ground and the spiritual abode. Abel&#8217;s blood cried out to God from the ground. This seems to indicate that the Hebrews saw the union of material and immaterial as so strong that both go into the ground together&#8211;thus, even the spiritual part of sheol is seen as underground, since the spirit does not end up far from where the body delivered it. And though we might scoff at the idea of a physical location for a spiritual abode, it is true that while a man lives his spirit is located within his body. Christ made it clear that sheol&#8217;s spiritual abode had two compartments, one for the righteous and one with suffering and flames. It is also clear that this was not heaven where God was said to be. Christ went to &#8220;prepare a place&#8221;&#8211;a place that had not yet been prepared, a place in the presence of the throne of God. It seems logical that the OT saints remained in sheol as a holding area until Christ satisfied justice though the cross.</p>
<p>While I agree that soul and spirit are mostly synonymous, I suggest that we should not dismiss all distinctions. The soul is most closely represented by the idea of &#8220;mind,&#8221; but with the understanding that in man that mind is possessed by an integral spirit. What the mind does the spirit does in much the same way that where the balloon goes the air within the balloon also goes, etc. Animals have a rudimentary soul, in that they have what we have (in a lesser capacity), including emotions, but they lack a spirit. The distinctions are usually unimportant in biblical references, since whenever one worships God in his soul he just as truly worships God in his spirit. Only when Scripture makes a distinction is there a distinction to be made. The spirit is that immaterial part of us that is most like God. It provides the everlasting nature of human existence. The body will die; the soul will live on only because of the spirit within it. While we are in these bodies, the soul is the interface between the spirit and the body in one sense, and encompasses both spirit and body in another sense. The soul, as the mind, is composed of both material and immaterial. The mind has its spiritual aspect, but it also has its physical aspect, controlling all body processes, etc. The mind can be enraptured in spiritual worship, and it can also be depressed due to chemical imbalances. When we die, the material part of the soul/mind is left behind, and the immaterial part (with the spirit within it) goes to God. </p>
<p>I think it also helps to realize that the spirit has faculties that parallel the body. A disembodied spirit may move on its own, without physical feet. (Look at the unclean spirits who left the demon-possessed man and went into the swine. They had to see the swine, as well as be able to move to where they were at.) A disembodied spirit needs no 11-cis-retinal in order to see.  This also explains why we are not condemned from the moment of conception. The spirit of a child is limited in its understanding by the body. A spirit without a body may go through a wall, but a spirit within one of these corruptible bodies must use a door. Also, though a disembodied spirit can see the door, the spirit of a (living) physically blind man cannot see. The physical body limits the spirit while the spirit is within it. In the same way, the spirit of a newly conceived child must wait until the body and mind have developed to a certain point before they can reach an accountable understanding. It is absurd to suggest that a zygote understands the law written on its heart and has any conflicting thoughts regarding it. In a (physically) living human being, thoughts require synapses and brain cells, which the zygote does not yet have.</p>
<p>When the disciples saw Jesus on the water, they said, &#8220;It is a spirit.&#8221; Why didn&#8217;t they say, &#8220;It is a soul?&#8221; Just as there were eight souls saved on the ark&#8230; To say, &#8220;It is a spirit,&#8221; is to mean a disembodied spirit, while soul could be either. While the spirit has an existence apart from the body, the human soul has no existence apart from the spirit.</p>
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		<title>By: MSH</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1394</link>
		<dc:creator>MSH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1394</guid>
		<description>@Sabio Lantz: good idea on the second one, too, and something I can do easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sabio Lantz: good idea on the second one, too, and something I can do easily.</p>
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		<title>By: MSH</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1393</link>
		<dc:creator>MSH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1393</guid>
		<description>@Sabio Lantz: good idea, but the problem is that pages I make for collections of posts wreaks havoc with my front page (visually moves things out of margins, that sort of thing). Not sure what to do because of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sabio Lantz: good idea, but the problem is that pages I make for collections of posts wreaks havoc with my front page (visually moves things out of margins, that sort of thing). Not sure what to do because of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Sabio Lantz</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1386</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabio Lantz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 02:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1386</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ Mike&lt;/b&gt;
May I make 2 suggestions:
(1)  For such series, make an index post.  Then, at the beginning of each post in the series, give a link to the index post so the reader can go back and look at the annotated list of related posts.  Otherwise navigation is cumbersome and uninviting.
(2) Put your e-mail in the &quot;Who is this Lunatic&quot; tab for people to write you instead of needing to make comments like this in the comment section.
Just some thoughts.
-- Sabio</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ Mike</b><br />
May I make 2 suggestions:<br />
(1)  For such series, make an index post.  Then, at the beginning of each post in the series, give a link to the index post so the reader can go back and look at the annotated list of related posts.  Otherwise navigation is cumbersome and uninviting.<br />
(2) Put your e-mail in the &#8220;Who is this Lunatic&#8221; tab for people to write you instead of needing to make comments like this in the comment section.<br />
Just some thoughts.<br />
&#8211; Sabio</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MSH</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1383</link>
		<dc:creator>MSH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1383</guid>
		<description>@Sabio Lantz: I&#039;m wondering if you&#039;ve read all the posts on this topic. I don&#039;t see your common dilemma as a dilemma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sabio Lantz: I&#8217;m wondering if you&#8217;ve read all the posts on this topic. I don&#8217;t see your common dilemma as a dilemma.</p>
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		<title>By: MSH</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1382</link>
		<dc:creator>MSH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1382</guid>
		<description>@Nobunaga: agreed; good points</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nobunaga: agreed; good points</p>
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		<title>By: Nobunaga</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1377</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobunaga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1377</guid>
		<description>The major thing for me in this blog of Anthropology is what happens at death, the separating of the Spirit at death from the body, this to me is the clearer way to see the dichotomous nature as we see the body (dead) and the Spirit going to be with the Lord. As far as when we are alive, with all the words that overlap why stop at 3 ? 

There is;

heart 
mind 
body 
soul 
desire 
passion
strength
might
life
appetite
emotion

i think it could go on ?

for simplicities sake a dichotomous human nature is preferable to me although the argument could be made for a trichotomous nature but then it gets complicated on were you draw the line with all the above words mentioned as Nepesh relating to man. So for me... keeping it simple there is Body (and all that intails listed above, and more) and Spirit. being a simple fella i&#039;ll stick to two for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The major thing for me in this blog of Anthropology is what happens at death, the separating of the Spirit at death from the body, this to me is the clearer way to see the dichotomous nature as we see the body (dead) and the Spirit going to be with the Lord. As far as when we are alive, with all the words that overlap why stop at 3 ? </p>
<p>There is;</p>
<p>heart<br />
mind<br />
body<br />
soul<br />
desire<br />
passion<br />
strength<br />
might<br />
life<br />
appetite<br />
emotion</p>
<p>i think it could go on ?</p>
<p>for simplicities sake a dichotomous human nature is preferable to me although the argument could be made for a trichotomous nature but then it gets complicated on were you draw the line with all the above words mentioned as Nepesh relating to man. So for me&#8230; keeping it simple there is Body (and all that intails listed above, and more) and Spirit. being a simple fella i&#8217;ll stick to two for now.</p>
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		<title>By: Sabio Lantz</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1376</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabio Lantz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 02:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1376</guid>
		<description>I graduated a psychology major Christian college (Wheaton).  I remember clearly being taught about the Bible&#039;s confirming us having a spirit and a soul.

I think the Chinese also struggle with the number of invisible parts of the body -- probably also driven to fulfill some numerological pressure.  
For example, they have:
shen  ? &quot;spirit&quot;
hun ? &quot;spiritual soul&quot;
po ? &quot;physical soul&quot;

Translations are hard since there is overlap in both English and Chinese.  
I think the common dilemma is that they want a word for the emotion side which changes but is immaterial.  And a death-surviving side which is unchanging. 

What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I graduated a psychology major Christian college (Wheaton).  I remember clearly being taught about the Bible&#8217;s confirming us having a spirit and a soul.</p>
<p>I think the Chinese also struggle with the number of invisible parts of the body &#8212; probably also driven to fulfill some numerological pressure.<br />
For example, they have:<br />
shen  ? &#8220;spirit&#8221;<br />
hun ? &#8220;spiritual soul&#8221;<br />
po ? &#8220;physical soul&#8221;</p>
<p>Translations are hard since there is overlap in both English and Chinese.<br />
I think the common dilemma is that they want a word for the emotion side which changes but is immaterial.  And a death-surviving side which is unchanging. </p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: blop2008</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1374</link>
		<dc:creator>blop2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1374</guid>
		<description>@MSH:  Right.... :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MSH:  Right&#8230;. <img src='http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MSH</title>
		<link>http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2010/01/biblical-anthropology-part-7/#comment-1373</link>
		<dc:creator>MSH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/?p=529#comment-1373</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@blop2008:&lt;/p&gt;
good luck :-) - it&#039;s that verse against everything else!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@blop2008:</p>
<p>good luck <img src='http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  &#8211; it&#8217;s that verse against everything else!</p>
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