Eschatology
For those just starting on these, my point is not to take any positions (I don’t); it is to show you that much of what you think is secure about end times beliefs is far from self-evident and depends on assumptions brought to the text.
Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 1
Focus: Are Israel and the Church distinct from each other, or does the Church replace Israel in God’s program for the ages? How would we know? Why is it that Galatians 3 has the Church inheriting the promises given to Abraham? Why are believers called the temple of God in 1 Cor 3 and 6 if the temple is supposed to be rebuilt? If Israel and the Church are distinct, it would seem that Israel might still have a national future, apart from the church. Keeping Israel and the Church distinct is key to any view of a rapture (because the Church is taken, not Israel).
Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 2
Focus: The need for Israel and the Church to be distinct is in part created by the assumption that the land promised to the patriarchs was never inherited and so must still be fulfilled. But there are certain indications in Scripture that might suggest the land promises actually were fulfilled — what if that turns out to be the case?
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 3
Focus: Did the covenants that God made with Abraham and David, and the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34), come with conditions for fulfillment? Are these covenants conditional or unconditional? The question is critical for knowing if the covenants (tied to the land promise) are still in effect or not (and so fulfilled by the Church).
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 4
Focus: Was the Davidic covenant “sinned away” by the apostasy of Israel that resulted in the exile? The writer of Psalm 89 certainly wondered. If it was, there may be no point in a literal millennial reign of Jesus in the future. His reign would be spiritual, fulfilled beginning at the resurrection and Pentecost through the Church.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 5
Focus: Was the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 fulfilled at Pentecost? If so, that’s another covenant given to Israel fulfilled in the Church, and so we have no reason to look for a national end times revival in Israel.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 6
Focus: This post revisits and elaborates upon post #2.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 7
Focus: Is there any *biblical* proof that the 70th week of Daniel = the tribulation period? Everyone assumes it, but there’s no Bible verse that says it.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 8
Focus: The 70th week of Daniel 9 (identifying it is more uncertain than you realize).
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 9
Focus: Continuation of the 70th week of Daniel 9.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 10
Focus: Continuation of the 70th week of Daniel 9.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 11
Focus: Continuation of the 70th week of Daniel 9.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 12
Focus: Continuation of the 70th week of Daniel 9. (Last one – features a scholarly article defending a non-Left Behind view so you know the issues involved.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 13
Focus: Are you a splitter or a joiner? ANY view of a rapture is heavily dependent on splitting up passages that speak of the return of Jesus into two categories (one of which = a rapture). The splitting is done along the lines of slight “discrepancies” between all the “return of Jesus” passages, assuming that they describe two events, not one. But why split these when we JOIN such passages everywhere else in the gospels (we harmonize so as to remove disagreement rather than highlighting disagreements)? Who made up the rule that the return passages should be split to produce a rapture? Why not harmonize? Maybe the answer is because then the rapture disappears. Ultimately, splitting or joining is our guess.
Why An Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time, Part 14
Focus: Was the book of Revelation written before or after 70 A.D.? Any view of a rapture depends on a date after 70; any non-rapture view must assume a pre-70 date. How can we know which is right? Good question.
Some journal articles on assorted eschatological presumptions
An Eschatological Spasm: McFall’s Chronology of the Prophetic Weeks of Daniel
Other Items on Why Eschatology is Driven by Presuppositions and Guesses:
Thoughts on Prophecy: Embracing the Messiness
Video Link to My First “Why Do You Believe What You Believe About End Times?” Session
37 Responses to “Eschatology”
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Hi Michael I’m new to your site. You have some great stuuf here. I love the critical thought put into your research. I’m wondering though you mention that Christ is coming back for the church, but isn’t he actually coming for the bride? My logical thought process leads me to believe the bride is inside the church. This would be much like a metephor of the wedding at this place and time.
What do you think about this? Just wondering?
Thanks,
Jim
which passages are leading you to this conclusion?
Good afternoon, Mike.
Also new to your blog. Took the time to read everything you have here, on your other site, The Facade, and borrowed a copy of your dissertation which I also carefully and thoughtfully read. After some careful consideration of what Sitchin said and did (and the “scholarship” with which he treated us through his Earth Chronicles), I came to realize two things: (1) the Nibiru phenomenon is that, a phenomenon that has become a meme in our culture, indeed, throughout the world, and (2) the scholarship that supports or denies the reality of the phenomenon is Biblical and sumero-egyptologic – a fact that makes both sides (yours and Sitchin’s) open to claims that both are based upon (a) an interpretation of the historical record, (b) a matter of expertise in ancient near eastern languages, and (c) conclusions, being what they are (hypothetical written “pictures” or models of a phenomenon), can be again highly interpretive of the records treated as data supporting a view through the prism used by the interpreter: Sitchin says “it is,” and you say “it isn’t.”
But the story does not end there. There is, as they say, a “door number 3.” This door is the one through which, wittingly or unwittingly, willingly or forced by circumstances, I am walking into this phenomenon. This is the door opened by experiencers who have come in contact with so-called Annunakis. In my case, it occurred when I was eleven in South America, on the Parana River between Brazil and Paraguay, while fishing with my father northeast of Encarnacion, Paraguay. He and I were “picked up” by a triangular six-man craft and, while my father was kept sedated via interesting nonbiomedical means, I was not. This was the first of three encounters with the same individual who lead the first group on the Parana, and have since assisted the small scientific cooperative that LPG-C has been since the early ’90s with very advanced scientific information and the technology with which to get our own by the same, or similar means, they have for apparent eaons. They called it the “brilliance,” according to Sitchin; we were more mundane in the naming, referring to it as simply “the tank.” We’ve been at it since 1998, when the first of two prototypes were completed, tested, and much to our amazement, found it to work exceeding all of our expectations. The results have been cumuli of information about how nature is and how nature works, from the infinite to the infinitesimal, and presented in some detail and with an historical sense of order on our new and improved website at http://www.lifephysicsgroup.org.
And we are not the only experiencers of these who call themselves Sa.a.mi. and fit the bill in appearance of the ancient Annunaki and/or Nephilim (the latter seeming human-Annunaki hybrids). There are others, and there are also others who are quietly pursuing face-to-face benevolent contact with “giants” in several places (South America, southern Africa, and the Mideast).
In a larger context, there is also an exopolitical framework which is impinged upon by the past (and which is the reason we now all need not scholarship proving one view or another, but rather a model of what we as humans face today and must literally face within 50 to 70 years from now). Whether or not Nibiru is a star or a planet or a comet, all of that is splitting hair. The IRAS pictures did not lie, and the current South Pole Telescope data is showing the incoming as being quite real, and incidentally, proving Jim McCanney’s contentions out to be more certain that any fiction I could write (and have written) about. No, Mike, this is not fable, and it is not prehistory.
Let me close this unexpectedly longer note than I intended by simply asking (1) whether or not you’ve ever experienced a face to face presence with one of these creatures, and (2) what would you do if you could?
I can tell that you haven’t used the KJV which gives understanding by comparing passages. Not saying everything is understandable to everyone as you have to have the Holy Spirit (truth) in your and in my spirit to correctly deceipher and discern what the Father is telling us. I particulary refer to passages like II Chron. 19:6 which tells me that I and all believers “belong” to God, not that we are “gods”. And all the other verses likewise refer to the possession by God the Father of those who are committed to Him. We can’t know all but we can always believe Him. Jesus Christ is the son of God the Father therefore that accounts for the plural God. Sort of like a family name.
Sorry I bought the book.
no idea what this is about or has to do with the eschatology post. I prefer the original languages, not English, in any event.
Hello Professor,
Matthew said that after the resurrection of Jesus, other Saints have also been raised from the dead. Do you believe that this is the first resurrection and those who avoid the “second death?”
Thanks.
no – the second death is something that all believers avoid.
I am sorry, professor. The question I meant to ask (and should’ve asked to begin with) is did the first resurrection already happen? Or do you believe the first ressurrection already happened?
I am not an amillenialist. However, as I study (now more in depth) the scriptures in Revelations and particularly Chapter 20, it seems that it already happened and now we are awaiting the second resurrection and the second coming of Christ as well as the appearance of New Jerusalem as written in Chapter 21.
I say that I am not an amillenialist because I believe the 1000 year reign was literal (not figerative), but for two purposes: (a) to bound Satan and (b) for the first resurrected saints to reign with Jesus in Heaven until His return on earth. (I am just now coming to this conclusion as I used to be die-hard pretrib/premillenialist). And, I also believe that not everything was fulfilled, yet (like preterists believe).
short answer: I don’t think the material allows for a clear determination. I also have to say I don’t see the importance of the question. I believe in an earthly kingdom, but I’m not a millennialist (I see it as too restrictive to be intended as literal; I view the new earth as the earthly kingdom). I know to some readers this won’t make sense, but I care so little about prophecy that I’m not going to get drawn back into it to explain what I think here.
lPerhaps you can spell out why you think it matters.
@MSH
The term rapture is so culturally linked to the idea of the pre-tribulation rapture in which christians vanish from the earth leaving behind neatly folded piles of clothing that when most people say “rapture” or hear “rapture” they think only of that association, that view of the rapture.
I would suggest that the rapture is a real event, but it is something completely different than what the typical pre-trib view of christian’s suddenly vanishing holds.
The rapture, in my opinion, is describing an event that would have been a well known phenomenon in the ancient world. Whenever an important person, a ruler or a dignitary, came to visit a city if the inhabitants of the city wanted to welcome the VIP and make a good impression, they would put on their best clothes and form a huge welcoming party that lined the road leading into the city. As the VIP approached they would all cheer and praise etc, and the leaders of the city would then meet the VIP and welcome them to the city.
This is precisely what happened when Jesus came to Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. There is also a description of this in Josephus when Alexander the Great came to Jerusalem.
The rapture described in scripture is simply God’s people being gathered together to form the welcome procession to greet and welcome the returning King.
so, you’re talking about the emotion.
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It’s ironic how you have FOURTEEN sections on why an obsession is with eschatology is a waste of time. Of course you have a healthy “obsession”. Love it!
well, I was badgered into it!
Just wondered if you have seen the alignment of Rev 12 is also going to line up around Feast of Trumpets @ the end of September and Comet Elenin?
http://www.inthatday.net/Watch/Elenin.html
Yes, but I do not put ant stock in it for two reasons:
(1) There is nothing in Scripture that explicitly says we ought to expect a revisitation (pun intended) of the precise set of celestial events that accompanied the first advent as a precursor to the second advent. One *must* presume (a nice word for guess) that “the sign of the son of man” is that *collection* of signs (and not just one celestial event or body) and that it isn’t something altogether different.
(2) The end of September date isn’t actually a mirror image of the sky at the birth of Jesus. While the collection of signs will re-appear in that alignment, there were other celestial events in the sky at that time that Rev 12 does not mention — but which astronomers can track. if you want an exact mirror image, this isn’t the date.
(Yes, I know the dates since I have a friend who is a very good astronomer with a keen interest in all this, but I do not present material as relevant unless I know with a high degree of certainty it *is* relevant – see #1 above).
This is good fodder for the next time some nitwit (usually an ancient astronaut fundamentalist) on the radio accuses me of wanting to make money off people by doing what I do. I could make a pile of cash pretty quickly if I sensationalized ideas without regard to merit. There are those within and without the church who do that; I’m not one of them. If I ever produced anything on this it would be with repeated emphasis: “who knows if it means anything?; it’s just a curiosity until #1 can be resolved, which I don’t expect to ever be resolved.
You mentioned you dont really like prophecy….
Surely you must like the spirit of it?
“and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Ps keep up the good work.
Well, I meant that I don’t like eschatology
“Prophecy” in that quotation no doubt refers to the bulk of what prophets did — speak for God — with which I have no problem!
Thanks
Please take another look. With your indepth knowledge do you see our history in the Psalms? Isn’t the 1991 Gulf war in Psalm 91? Isn’t the 1974 CIA Op to raise the Russian K-129 sub the Leviathan of Psalm 74? The 2004 tsunami is the water in the first part of Psalm 104. The height of the Holocaust, 1944, is in Psalm 44. The planetary alignment of Rev.12 and Psalm 112 occured on Sep. 29, 2011 when Venus and Saturn (cronus) were over the womb of Virgo. He (God) raiseth the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill. Psalm 113 shows the rapture.
The Psalms tie everything together. PLEASE take another look.
Thanks, Thomas
It’s just nonsense. The newspaper isn’t a hermeneutical guide to the Bible. (And the numbering of chapters and verses came in middle ages).
I do I get a copy of your e-book “Islam and Armageddon”?
Thanks
email me about that
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Hi Mike,
I really appreciate your approach to end times. I am part of a group that has very strong views on the end times. One of my concerns with that is it there has been a culture created completely colored by a particular end time view (premillennialism/post-trib/Pro-Israel/very soon 2ndcmg). I was a big time advocate (taught on it tons), now, frankly, I’m just not sure anymore on its particulars. Wow, I have even begun questioning a literal, future millennial kingdom (you know, holy grail stuff). So, I really appreciate that you just say what see or feel, but never say, that it’s not all so clean and tidy. Thank you for that!
Would it be possible to connect privately on some of this? Lastly, I don’t think I read what your actual views really, sorry if I missed it.
Thanks!
depends on what “connect privately” means. If you mean “chat now and then by email” that’s fine, but if you’ve read my email disclaimer on my home page, it’s for real. I get about 20-30 a day for private email, so running correspondences aren’t likely (it’s more like hit and run). If you mean “get together and talk about prophecy” I’m not interested. Again, what I’ve said on my site is the truth. I don’t care about the subject; I can think of 20-30 things more interesting.
Excuse last comments grammar….
“so, I really appreciate that you that you just say what see and feel”…
Meant to say…you touch on things that many people see but rarely say about their particular views, which n fact are not so clear.
yes, which is why I’m so popular!
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This may have been answered before, but I was wondering what the Hebrew script at the top of the web page says? Also, if you do any work with Aramaic and what the differences are with Hebrew?
This is a very interesting site. Thanks.
thanks; see the link:
http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/the-hebrew-header/
I just heard you on Coast to Coast – great show. I agree that the text on end times and/or the Second Coming present a lot of difficulty. But here’s my question – what is the point of the second coming – why?
The first time Jesus came he offered us salvation through his death and resurrection. Yes, now we can have access to God and his grace, forgiveness etc, but we are still sinners. The major difficulty I see confronting Christianity and all of humanity is this issue of “fallen nature.” If the first coming did not present any way to rid ourselves of fallen nature, then what good is a second coming – how do you change the fallen nature of humanity – even one at at time. Magical, supernatural events in the sky, pre-millenial or millenial or whatever – don’t change people internally. How can you have a Kingdom of God populated by sinners, ieven if they are forgiven?
If the literal understanding of the rapture etc is correct – humanity is still left with sinnners. I can’t just discard the second coming because Jesus himself talked about a second coming – but why? Magical supernatural events do not stop people from sinning, or thinking sinful thoughts.
So I’d appreciate hearing your viewpoint on the purpose of the second coming, and how the whole issue of the sinful nature of human beings is dealt with.
The purpose of the second coming in biblical theology is to consummate the kingdom of God on earth that was re-kickstarted at the first coming. The goal is the restoration of Eden, not just to a slice on the planet, but the entire globe. Part of that involves the final judgment of evil and sin and the glorification of believers past and present into one family of God, joining the heavenly family / divine council (non-human imagers of God) in one family and administration of a new Edenic earth.
Your note about sinning is well taken, which is the why the second coming resolves that. Note that what I described above is the note typical dispensational view that has evil still present after the second coming. That problem (no doubt related to the notes you made) is a serious weakness of the system. There are reasons it gets articulated that way, but I reject those reasons since they are designed to prop up a particular eschatological approach. I don’t care about propping anything up.
Note that the view I described is also not traditional premillennialism (or amillennialism), though it affirms a new Edenic kingdom on earth. I don’t care about the labels. I’m more interested in what I think is defensible and clear from the text.
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[...] Click here for Dr. Michael Heiser’s series “Why an Obsession With Eschatology is a Waste of Time,” and click here for Mike’s presentation “Revelation 12, Astral Prophecy and the Birth of Christ on 9/11″ (link opens YouTube video). [...]
Dear Dr Heiser,
I would like to thank God and you for your teachings on Divine Council. So, far I am doing my study on DC and I love it.
I wanted to ask you about the temple sacrifice in millennium, mentioned in Ezekiel 43, 44, 46.
If it is speaking about the millennium temple sacrifice, then why it is needed when Christ is ruling as the King during millennium?
I look forward to hear from you,
Kind Regards,
Andy
I don’t see the material in Ezekiel 40-48 as having literal eschatological fulfillment, precisely because of the reason you point out. The NT has believers as the temple of God (individual and corporate; 1 Cor 3:16; 6:19-20 for example) covered by the sacrificial blood of Christ, as it were.